S. Berliner, III's sbiii.com Boxcab Page keywords = boxcab GE General Electric Erie Peterboro Toronto electric engine rail road way L1 L2 L3 1915 Elgin County Halton Radial St. Thomas Milton Ontario museum historical association

Updated:   10 Oct 2012,  22:20  ET
{Restored missing images 31 Dec 2002}
[Page converted 06 Oct 2012; page created 12 Jun 2001;
    original AT&T Worldnet Website begun 30 May 1996.]
Update info on the top on ALL pages for your convenience.

URL:  http://sbiii.com/boxcabl2.html
[was at "home.att.net/~Berliner-Ultrasonics/boxcabl2.html"]

S. Berliner, III
Consultant in Ultrasonic Processing
"changing materials with high-intensity sound"

[consultation is on a fee basis]

Technical and Historical Writer, Oral Historian
Popularizer of Science and Technology
Rail, Auto, Air, Ordnance, and Model Enthusiast
Light-weight Linguist, Lay Minister, and Putative Philosopher



note - The vast bulk of my massive Web presence (over 485 pages) had been hosted by AT&T's WorldNet service since 30 May 1996; they dropped WorldNet service effective 31 Mar 2010 and I have been scrambling to transfer everything.  Everything's saved but all the links have to be changed, mostly by hand.  See my sbiii.com Transfer Page for any updates on this tedious process.


ALCoBlockLogo ALCoScriptLogo ALCoGearLogo

 

GELogo IRLogo

S. Berliner, III's

sbiii.com

ALCo-GE-IR
Boxcabs Page

 

I-R 60-ton Demo

A new type of locomotive!
Ingersoll-Rand 1925 Demonstrator #9681
(later CNJ #1000)
(ALCo builders photo S-1484 - source uncertain;
possibly from 1980s AAR flyer)

 

 

ALCo-GE-IR BOXCAB

Oil-Electric ("Diesel") Locomotives

(American Locomotive Company - General Electric - Ingersoll-Rand)

INDEX to Boxcabs Pages:

note-rt.gif   The primary Boxcabs Index has been moved to a separate page, together with links and credits.

Boxcab Help - A service for boxcab afficionados,
posting reasonable questions (at my sole discretion).

There are now more than seventy-five (75) BOXCAB pages;
see the full INDEX, now on a separate page.

[A new "bugaboo" has reared its ugly head - complexity of organization -
see COMPLEXITY on my main index page.]

  The Boxcabs Index Page.
=============================================== -->   Electric Boxcabs (Survivor) Continuation Page 2
keywords =
  (URL http://home.att.net/~Berliner-Ultrasonics/boxcabl2.html )]

S. Berliner, III's

ELECTRIC BOXCAB
(Survivors) Continuation Page 2

Consultant in Ultrasonic Processing
"changing materials with high-intensity sound"
Technical and Historical Writer, Oral Historian
Popularizer of Science and Technology
Rail, Auto, Air, Ordnance, and Model Enthusiast
Light-weight Linguist, Lay Minister, and Putative Philosopher


(Page separated out from Electric Boxcabs Continuation Page 1 on 12 Jun 01)

There are now more than fifty (50) BOXCAB pages;
see the main Boxcabs page and the Boxcabs INDEX.

This site has now been visited times since the counter was installed.

BOXCAB BIBLIOGRAPHY is at the end of Continuation Page 3.


PAGE INDEX:

On the main Electric Boxcabs page:
  ELECTRIC BOXCABS
1893 GE #1 / MfrsRR #1
Piedmont & Northern #5103
    (moved to Electric Boxcab (Survivors) Continuation Page 3 on 11 Jun 02)
ELECTRIC BOXGON!

On the Electric Boxcabs Continuation Page 1:
  ELECTRIC BOXCABS - Part 2 (follows), with

GE #1/MfrsRR #1 History (continued),
St. Clair Tunnel Electric Boxcabs,
Mystery Canadian G.E. Electric Boxcab (no it's not!),
Chilean Boxcabs, and
Other Overseas Electric Boxcabs

On this Electric Boxcab (Survivors) Continuation Page 2:

So. Bklyn (SBK) #4.
L&PS #L1 and #L2.
Butte, Anaconda & Pacific.

On the Electric Boxcabs (Survivors) Continuation Page 3:

Piedmont & Northern #5103
(moved there from the main Electric Boxcabs page).

Still on Continuation Page 5:
  ODD BOXCABS

AIR BOXCAB!
STEAM BOXCABS!
  ODDER BOXCABS


ELECTRIC BOXCAB SURVIVORS

South Brooklyn Railway (SBK) #4 (map symbol 4)

Of the four (4) box motors noted on the preceding page as on the roster of the Shore Line Trolley Museum of the BERA (Branford Electric Railway Association) in East Haven, Connecticut, three appear to be most likely "only" trolley car locos, but one turns out to be the South Brooklyn Railway (SBK) box motor #4 (map index 4), built by the Brooklyn Heights Railway Company in 1907 on two ALCo 2-axle trucks.  She is now on her own page, as befits any surviving boxcab of that age.

So, when is an electric boxcab merely a transit (trolley) box motor and when is it a boxcab locomotive?  On my site, it's when I say so!


L&PS #L1 and #L2

As noted about the so-called Mystery Boxcab on the Electric Boxcabs Continuation Page 1, the locomotive in question turned out to be the L&PS (London & Port Stanley) #L1, now at the ECRM (the Elgin County Railway Museum) in St. Thomas (London area), Ontario, Canada, and newly refinished.  Her sister is #L2, which survives at the Halton County Radial Railway in Milton (Toronto area), Ontario, run by the OERHS (Ontario Electric Railway Historical Association).  They were the first and second of three built by the GE Erie works in March 1915 and shipped north to GE's Peterboro/Toronto facility, without builder's plates to avoid duties, where plates were installed.  the L&PS was started in 1856 and electrified in 1915 with these three 65-ton locos.

ECRM got #L1 from the CSTM (Canada Science and Technology Museum) in 1995.  HCRR got #L2 (when?) from the Toronto and York Division of the Canadian Railway Historical Association (it was in their museum at Harbourfront, Toronto).  #L3 was scrapped somewhere along the line but two out of three ain't bad, not bad at all for 1915 products!   rev.gif (16 Mar 05)

(L2 background from former T&YD/CRHA member.)

[To find #L1 on the ECRM site, click on "Roster" and then scroll down to, and click on, the photo above "London & Port Stanley Railway / Box Cab Electric #L1".]

Here is a photo of all three, labelled "6049. L.&P.S.Ry. GENVIEW LOCOMOTIVES IN SHOP FEB. 1915."; you can see that they have no pantagraphs or any other roof fitments:

GE Erie L&PS L1/2/3
(Image courtesy of Ontario Hydro Archives - from ECRM site, by permission
processed by SB,III to enhance visibility)

I can't but wonder if the photo isn't actually of the fabrication of the three at the GE Erie works.

Mystery Canadian G.E. Electric Boxcab
No Longer a Mystery!

Here, again, are the pictures I took in the late summer of 1971 (September?) at the "Ottawa Transportation Museum"*, back when I didn't even know I'd be a boxcab maven!  Those are my daughters on the platform and by the step:

* - Actually then the "National Museum of Transportation" and now the "Canada Science and Technology Museum", noted and linked above.

Ottawa Can. GE El Box 1 Ottawa Can. GE El Box 4

Ottawa Can. GE El Box 2 Ottawa Can. GE El Box 3
[Photos ca. Sep 71 by and © 2001 - S. Berliner, III - all rights reserved]
(Images are thumbnails -click on the photo for a larger image.)

When I found the photos, I couldn't even tell what loco it was and I still can't begin to imagine why I didn't take an overall view or why I took a picture of only a portion of the end with some total stranger's face in view (and it's NOT cropped)!

That builder's plate photo original is quite sharp and I could not find even a trace of stamping in the CLASS, NO., VOLTS, or DATE blocks.  However, after seeing my photo, a volunteer at the ECRM sent me this current photo of one of the plates, with the encrusted paint removed, revealing clear, deep stamping:

L&PS L1 Builder's Plate
(Image courtesy of R. Sterne - all rights reserved
processed by SB,III to enhance visibility)

The text reads:

ELECTRIC LOCOMOTIVE
Class
404-E-120-4GE-251-A
1500  VOLTS  DC
NO 5000   DATE MAR 1915
CANADIAN
GENERAL ELECTRIC CO.

LIMITED
TORONTO-PETERBORO

#L2 was builder's number 5001 and #L3 was number 5003.

It's interesting to note that the city near Toronto in Ontario is "Peterborough"; was "Peterboro" a contraction to save space or an old usage?

[Ayuh!  Ted Garner, born and raised in Peterborough says the Peterboro usage is just that, a contraction.  Incidently, when he grew up in Peterborough, for years the largest employer was General Electric, the manufacturer of the Class 404-E-120-4GE-251-A locomotive.  Thanks, Ted!]

The truck looks just like that on the 60-ton oil-electrics.

The only lettering visible seemed to be "PS" and "LI", but it sure as heck wasn't an LIRR loco!@

On 06 Jun 01, a volunteer at the Illinois Railway Museum (Union, IL) who works in the Electric Car Department spotted these photos, did some checking, and put me on to the identity of this engine and its sister; I had a lot of revising to do!

@ - The "PS" is, of course "Port Stanley" and "LI" is the loco number "L1".

The ECRM volunteer also sent a photo of locomotive #L2 whil(e)(st) in storage ca. 1990 at Brampton, Ontario (which is just northwest of Toronto).

L&PS L2 in storage Brampton
(Image courtesy of R. Sterne - all rights reserved
processed by SB,III to enhance visibility)

There are quite a large number of other pictures available and I have asked for permission to reproduce them here.  Some permissions have come in and the photos are here (in the order permission was received and no other).

First, Keith Sirman allowed me to post these three photos of #L1, starting with her on the first electrified run on the L&PS on 20 Jun 1915:

L&PS L1 1st el. run '15
(Image courtesy of K. Sirman - all rights reserved
processed by SB,III to enhance visibility)

(dig that crazy, early, single, centered pan) and #L1 at Port Stanley in Aug 1940:

L&PS L1 at PS '40
(Image courtesy of K. Sirman - all rights reserved
processed by SB,III to enhance visibility)

and then #L1 at London in 1960:

L&PS L1 at Lond. '60
(Image courtesy of K. Sirman - all rights reserved
processed by SB,III to enhance visibility)

Next, we turn to the photos of and from Brian D. Switzer, whose Brian's Ralroad Photography site is incredible, and includes the collection of Randy Masales, which in turn includes the photography of Harry Otterbein, from 1954 to 1999, and primarily (but not exclusively) covering southern Ontario.

Here are Harry Otterbein shots of all three engines in the London yard in May 1957:

L&PS L1 L&PS L2 L&PS L3
[Photos ca. May 57 by H. Otterbein, from R. Masales collection, courtesy B. D. Switzer - all rights reserved]
(Images are thumbnails -click on the photos for larger images.)

Next, here is Brian's own shot of #L1, on display in all her restored glory in Aug 2000 at the ECRM in St. Thomas, Ontario:

L&PS L1
(Photo by and courtesy of B. D. Switzer - all rights reserved

Now, we have a photo of #L2 reproduced by specific permission from William E. Miller's LONDON & PORT STANLEY RAILWAY site:

L&PS L2
(16 Apr 63 photo by W. E. Miller, by specific permission - all rights reserved)

Mr. Miller states that "freight locomotive L2 and passenger car 8 are parked side by side at the Phillip Street carbarn in London on April 16, 1963, some six years after passenger service ended on the L&PS."  He also notes that the three locos were "purchased at a cost of $29,367 each",

[Emphasis mine.  One can logically assume that price was in Canadian dollars -
but what was the exchange rate back then?]
.

Old boxcabs buddy Don Ross has a separate section on the L&PS, with even more photos of all three locos at work [and L2 (NOT L1) on display, obviously at Toronto]!  Don was nice enough to give me permission to reproduce the photos here; the first shows #L1 at London on 10 Jun 47 and the second is an undocumented photo of #L1:

L&PS L1 10Jun47 Lond L&PS L1 ca50 HortonX Lond
[Photos courtesy of Don Ross - all rights reserved]
(Images are thumbnails -click on the photos for larger images.)
{Corrupted left image restored 22 Feb 2003}

[Rob Sterne advised (14 Jun 01) that the date of the second photo appears to be ca. 1950s and that it was at the Horton Street crossing in London.]

Next comes #L2 at St. Thomas on 09 Sep 1954 and in Toronto, as noted above, in Jun 1984:

L&PS L2 09Sep54 StTh L&PS L2 Tor
[Photos courtesy of Don Ross - all rights reserved]
(Images are thumbnails -click on the photos for larger images.)

Lastly, we have #L3 at London (undated) and with 1915 Jewett combine motor car #10 at Wabash Crossing, St. Thomas, on 26 Aug 1960:

L&PS L3 Lond undat L&PS L3 WabX StTh 26Aug60
[Photos courtesy of Don Ross - all rights reserved]
(Images are thumbnails - click on the photos for larger images.)

[Rob Sterne advised (14 Jun 2001) that motor car #10 still exists at the Canadian Railway Museum in Montreal and that cars 4, 8, and 14 also still survive.]


This is all rather funny for me, personally; my interest is really in the AGEIR (ALCo-GE-IR) Oil-Electric Boxcabs and here I am digressing madly about a triplet of old electrics!  Of course, they ARE GE locos and I DID stumble on one years back in Ottawa, but - - - .  Don Ross tried to entice me to look into his many other boxcab electrics, especially the Saint Clair Tunnel, a whole bunch of BA&P, and others; well, some are up on my other electric boxcab pages but I am really only going to spend my time on SURVIVORS!


Readers interested in far more detail about the London & Port Stanley Railway are directed (by Don Ross) to the outstanding coverage of William E. Miller, historian of the Electric Lines in Southern Ontario, at his LONDON & PORT STANLEY RAILWAY page on that site, wherein he describes the line as "otherwise known as the L&PS - Late & Poor Service" {emphasis mine}!

Readers interested in Ontario's railways are directed (by Don Ross) to Rob Hughes' Ontario Railway History Page.

Whil(e)(st) not particularly a traction fan, I must show you Mr. Miller's very unique and intensely clever e-mail sign-off (doctored slightly to appear to best advantage here):

________________________________________________________
\ Electric Lines in Southern Ontario
\ http://www.trainweb.org/elso/
________\_________________________________________
/____G_R_A_N_D_____R_I_V_E_R_____R_A_I_L_W_A_Y_____\
|[_] |_||_||_||_||_| [][][] [_]|
|| | 626 | | 626 | ||
o-------------------------------======-------------o
/|-|(o)=x=(o) xxxxxx O|___||___||-| (o)=x=(o)|-|\
========================================================
'In honour of the last interurban car built in Canada'

[Not to be outdone, I "borrowed" from this graphic and created my own version for the LIRR #401 oil-electric!]

In addition (and even more massive), is Dave's Railpix collection!  Only trouble here is that you have to wait while approximately 20 million (give or take a few) thumbnail photos of traction load, but it's well worth it and there are about a half dozen L-unit photos; however, Dave shows more electric box motors than I ever dreamt existed up there on other lines!  And this coverage is only a tiny fraction of his even-more-massive Dave's Electric Railroads coverage!


Butte, Anaconda & Pacific

Speaking of Don Ross, you really have to see his coverage of the Butte, Anaconda & Pacific boxcab electrics at http://donross.railspot.com/dr186.htm!  The BA&P was one of the first major railroads to electrify (1912-13, after the B&O and PRR), was the model (at 2,400V) for the Milwaukee electrification (at 3KV), and it's large fleet of boxcab electrics were built by GE, ALCo, and GE-ALCo!  Even better, according to an e-mail on 17 Aug 01, at least one survives, out at in Butte, Montana at the Montana Mining Museum located at Montana Tech. {more on this to follow).  There's also a great photo of BA&P #64 on North East Rails at http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_bap64.jpg.

Thanks to Bob Lampe in Anaconda for reminding me about my BA&P oversight.  He tells me {slightly edited} that "the boxcabs used by the BA&P were all mostly built prior to WWI and remained in service until electric operations ceased in the late 60's or early to mid 70's.  Some of the boxcabs were sold to Canadian Northern".  Bob told me of the one at the Montana Mining Museum located at Montana Tech.  "In 1980, total operations for the BA&P ceased and the line was renamed Rarus Railway and is all diesel."  "There were two different types of boxcabs; although they looked very similar, there were external differences.  One type was strictly a passenger locomotive; the other was freight.  There were fewer passenger locomotives than freight.  Also there were minor carbody differences depending on the year they were built."

Bob added {per a local expert, edited slightly} that the boxcab "on display at The Montana Museum of Mining located at Montana Tech in Butte, Montana, is #47, built 12-14-1914 by GE.  It is accompanied by tractor truck T-2, built on the same date.  A tractor truck is what we would today call a calf or a slug.  The BA&P electrified in 1912 and had a total of 28 of these 80 ton boxcabs. It was the first railroad to electrify with 2,400 volts DC.  Passenger operations were discontinued in April 1955.  #201 and #202 were built in July 1957" at the Erie plant {must have been GE's Erie plant}.

Bob also advised that the "200's were strictly freight and were purchased to complement the diesels 101-107.  There were only two of the class 200 (201 and 202) and were purchased after BA&P had ceased passenger operations.  They were actually a failure as they didn't stand up to the standards put forth by the manufacturer and there was usually a diesel or two MU'ed with them.  One engineer, a friend of the {Bob's} family, stated that 'they wouldn't pull the hat off your head'."  Bob believes that they were also sold to CNo.  Bob recalled that locos designated for "passenger service had gold lettering in the letterboard and the name was spelled out entirely BUTTE ANACONDA & PACIFIC."

He also noted that "there is a Milwaukee boxcab on display in Harlowton, Montana" which he's seen and "a Little Joe on display in Deer Lodge, Montana", which he believes is the E-72 or E-74* {but that's no boxcab, nohow; the loco in Harlowton turns out to be a 1915 Milwaukee Road E-57B electric locomotive made by General Electric - SB,III.}

* - That Deer Lodge Little Joe is E-70 per Ron Hamilton, former Secretary, Milwest (Milwaukee West) Historical Group, which restored her in the mid 90's (thanks, Ron).

Bob Lampe reminded me of (and recommends) William D. Middleton's "When the Steam Railroads Electrified"; I find that a new edition is due out this month (Aug 2001) from Indiana University.

BA&P #46 BA&P & Milw. Trains
(Photos from TRAIN SHED CYCLOPEDIA No. 15.)

These two old photos, ca. 1922, show BA&P #46 (GE type 0440-E-160-4GE229-2400V) and a view of a BA&P ore train with two 80-tonners (2,400VDC) crossing over a MILW (CM&StP) freight (3,000VDC) [from TRAIN SHED CYCLOPEDIA #15 - "Heavy Traction, 1922-1941"].

Survivor BA&P #47 in the Anselmo mine yard in Butte, along with Tractor Truck ("slug") No. T-2 of the same vintage, now has its own page, q.v.!

Bob Lampe is a veritable gold mine of BA&P info.; he tells me that "in the very early days when a BA&P train would cross over a MILW train (both electrics, of course and at the same exact spot as in the picture at the right), there was some sort of electrical feedback that really raised hob with the locomotives.  As long as they were not directly in an over-under situation, all was OK.  It was just when a BA&P locomotive passed directly over a MILW locomotive that the problem occurred."  Perhaps some sort of inductive interference - but with DC?  Help!


There are now more than fifty (50) BOXCAB pages;
see the main Boxcabs page and the Boxcabs INDEX.


U.S.Flag U.S.Flag

THUMBS UP!

THUMBS UP!  -  Support your local police, fire, and emergency personnel!


S. Berliner, III

To contact S. Berliner, III, please click here.



To tour the Boxcabs pages in sequence, the arrows take you from the previous page, to the Boxcabs index, to the first boxcabs page, and on to continuation pages 3 and up, then 100-tonner LIRR #401 and her sisters, survivor boxcabs (with map) and survivor notes, survivor CNJ #1000 (the very first), Ingersoll-Rand boxcabs (with instruction manual), other (non-ALCo/GE/I-R) boxcabs, Baldwin-Westinghouse boxcabs, odd boxcabs, and finally model boxcabs.



© Copyright S. Berliner, III - - All rights reserved.


Return to Top of Page ======================================================== =============================================== ========================================================



LEGACY

  What happens to all this when I DIE or (heaven forfend!) lose interest?  See LEGACY.


There are now more than seventy-five (75) BOXCAB pages;
see the full INDEX, now on a separate page.


COPYRIGHT NOTICE

See Copyright Notice on primary home page.



U.S.Flag U.S.Flag

THUMBS UP!

THUMBS UP!  -  Support your local police, fire, and emergency personnel!


Contact S. Berliner, III

(Junk and unsigned e-mail and blind telephone messages will NOT be answered)



prevpage.gif subjndex.gif frstpage.gif nextpage.gif
To tour the Boxcabs pages in sequence, the arrows take you from the Boxcabs index page to the first Boxcabs page, to continuation pages 1 and up, then 100-tonner LIRR #401 and her sisters, survivor boxcabs (with map) and survivor notes, survivor CNJ #1000 (the very first), Ingersoll-Rand boxcabs (with instruction manual), other (non-ALCo/GE/I-R) boxcabs, Baldwin-Westinghouse boxcabs, odd boxcabs, and finally model boxcabs.



© Copyright S. Berliner, III - 1999, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012  - all rights reserved.


Return to Top of Page