S. Berliner, III's sbiii.com Boxcab Page 4 keywords = boxcab EMD Electro motive ALCo GE IR American Locomotive Company General Electric Ingersoll Rand oil electric diesel engine rail road 1 11 195 401 1000 museum marine water front dock pocket

Updated:   13 Mar 2014; 18:20 ET
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    original AT&T Worldnet Website begun 30 May 1996.]
Update info on the top on ALL pages for your convenience.

URL:  http://sbiii.com/boxcabs4.html
[was at "home.att.net/~Berliner-Ultrasonics/boxcabs4.html"]

S. Berliner, III
Consultant in Ultrasonic Processing
"changing materials with high-intensity sound"

[consultation is on a fee basis]

Technical and Historical Writer, Oral Historian
Popularizer of Science and Technology
Rail, Auto, Air, Ordnance, and Model Enthusiast
Light-weight Linguist, Lay Minister, and Putative Philosopher



note - The vast bulk of my massive Web presence (over 485 pages) had been hosted by AT&T's WorldNet service since 30 May 1996; they dropped WorldNet service effective 31 Mar 2010 and I have been scrambling to transfer everything.  Everything's saved but all the links have to be changed, mostly by hand.  See my sbiii.com Transfer Page for any updates on this tedious process.


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S. Berliner, III's

sbiii.com

ALCo-GE-IR
Boxcabs
Continuation Page 4

[overflow from the main Boxcab ("Home") page]

I-R 60-ton Demo

A new type of locomotive!
Ingersoll-Rand 1925 Demonstrator #9681
(later CNJ #1000)
(ALCo builders photo S-1484 - source uncertain;
possibly from 1980s AAR flyer)

 

 

ALCo-GE-IR BOXCAB

Oil-Electric ("Diesel") Locomotives

(American Locomotive Company - General Electric - Ingersoll-Rand)

INDEX to Boxcabs Pages:

note-rt.gif   The primary Boxcabs Index has been moved to a separate page, together with links and credits.

Boxcab Help - A service for boxcab afficionados,
posting reasonable questions (at my sole discretion).

There are now more than seventy-five (75) BOXCAB pages;
see the full INDEX, now on a separate page.

[A new "bugaboo" has reared its ugly head - complexity of organization -
see COMPLEXITY on my main index page.]

  The Boxcabs Index Page.

PAGE INDEX:

  Known ALCo-GE-IR Boxcab Production
(moved from the Boxcabs "Home" Page 16 Mar 99).

  Known GE Boxcab Production

(moved from the Boxcabs "Home" Page 16 Mar 99).

Boxcab Cooling Problems.

Original GE Boxcab Outline Drawing.

OE-601 GE Boxcab Class Drawing.

For the ALCohaulic (including ALCo Historic Photos).

Boxcab Miscellany.

Boxcab Help.


[First of all, I want to credit Bill Russell, Penny Bridge; we seem to be linking back and forth but he has the most compendious site about NY-area railroading, where most boxcabs lurked, with tons of information.

Second, take a look at Mark Laundry's Yard Limit Diesel Switcher Spotter's and Reference Guide, a site about early diesel switchers, especially a 1994 paper by Benn Coifman on "The Evolution of the Diesel Locomotive in the United States", with an excellent history of the ALCo-GE-IR consortium, as well as McKeen, Westinghouse/Baldwin, Hamilton/EMC/EMD, and Pullman's efforts.]

Since Sep 00, there had been an extremely detailed and accurate site focusing exclusively on the earliest history of the ALCo-GE-IR (AGEIR) and GE-IR locos, the late John F. Campbell's "http://www.execpc.com/~jcampbel/ageir.html" ALCO / General Electric / Ingersoll-Rand (AGEIR) Diesel-Electric Locomotives" site; I had heartily recommended it to you!  John Campbell had since added a complete roster of all the ALCo-GE-IR boxcab locos built in the first production run, totalling 33 units, from 1925 to 1930, but not the later Bi- and Tri-Power or GE-IR units.  He then added a roster of the GE-IR units.  Unfortunately, John passed away far too early, on 23 Feb 2005 (for more more information about John, click here) and, after about a year, his site vanished from the Net.  Knowing he was gone, I had taken the precaution of saving his entire site, all the HTML coding and images (or so I thought) and have now reproduced it in full to the best of my ability, adding a full index:

AGEIR Boxcabs Pages Index.

AGEIR History {main page}, et seq.


Overflow from the Boxcabs "HOME" Page.


Pinkepank (1967) lists the known ALCo-GE-IR production as:

60-ton

CNJ #1000, SURVIVOR
B&O #1 (later #195 and #8000), SURVIVOR
LV #100 {but see below*}
CNW #1000-1002
Erie #19 (2 - Marre adds #20)
RDG #50 and #51
DL&W (2) {#3001 SURVIVOR (later I-R #91) and
  #3002 (to Harlem Transfer as HT #2)}
  [uh-oh! - Marre says it was #3001 (typo?)]
Utah Copper (1) {#600, but see below*} [Marre says #60]
American Rolling Mills (1) [Marre says (6) #741-746]
Union Carbide (1), SURVIVOR
Donner Steel Co. (1) [Marre says (4) #21-24]
[Marre adds I-R #90]
[Marre adds (1) Buffalo-GE]

100-ton {but see below*}

LIRR #401 and #402
GN #5100
Erie #21 and #22
Red River Lumber Co. #502 {later Armco #E103}
[Marre adds American Rolling Mills #E-101 - but see below]

[Pinkepank reports five (5) 300-hp units built for stock in 1928 whose disposition is unsure; he thinks one may be the Union Carbide unit and some the Donner Steel and American Rolling Mills (ARMCO) units.  The identity of the last few ALCo units and the first few GE-only units are somehat blurred in the mists of antiquity!]


and known GE production as:

60-ton

Ford Motor Co. (1) [Marre says it's #300]
GE-Buffalo (1) [Marre says it's an ALCo - see above]
American Rolling Mills (1) [Marre says it's #747]
[Marre adds Hoboken Manufacturers Railway #500]

100-ton

[Marre adds American Rolling Mills #E-101 - but see above]
[Marre adds Belt Railway of Chicago #301]
CNW #1200
IC #9000-9005
Belt Railway of Chicago #301
Ford Motor Co. #600 (sold to Construction Services, Inc.)
[Marre adds Hoboken Manufacturers Railway #600]
Hoboken Terminal (1) {Marre does not list this one]
Foley Bros. (1) {the only 100-ton SURVIVOR!} [Marre shows it as #110 {sic}]

and probable GE with some possible ALCo bodies:

60-ton

Erie #20
Hoboken Terminal (1)
American Rolling Mills (4)
Donner Steel (3)

100-ton

American Rolling Mills (1)

Not bad for a totally-new innovation!  But what a nightmare of conflicting information!

Here, from Don Ross, by his special courtesy on 17 Jun 02, here is the Erie #20 (photographed 11 Jan 1938), looking fairly original after 12 years use and with 20 to go:

Erie 20 11Jan38
(11 Jan 38 Erie #20 photo courtesy of D. Ross - all rights reserved to source.)
[Thumbnail image; click on photo for larger image.]

Don writes that #20, B3-3, Class M-1, was built by Alco-General Electric-Ingersoll Rand on 25 May 1926, c/n #66681, 10024, and was later reclassified Class SA-3 and was scrapped in November 1958.

Speaking of GE production, on the main Boxcabs page, I had the temerity to say my interest in the triple-power locomotives was minimal; well, it was, but it's growing.  After all, a boxcab is a boxcab is a boxcab!  To put it another way, a boxcab by any other name is still a boxcab and would smell just as sweet (huh???)!  So, here, then, is a cropped enlargement of a high-res. copy of a fantastic 1936 photo courtesy of Alex LaBianca (found through Kevin Walsh's Forgotten NY - thanks, guys) of 1930 GE triple-power NYC #1542 running down 11th Avenue in Manhattan at 49th Street:

Thumbnail of 233+Kb 1930 GE Triple-Power NYC #1542 on 11th at 49th
[This is a thumbnail of a 233+Kb photo; click on the small picture for the full image.]
(original photo courtesy of Alex LaBianca)

NOTE - street running on a main throughfare and there's no man on a horse or on foot with a flag - Kevin says the track RoW is why 11th Avenue still has an island to this day, the only numbered avenue with an island (assuming you call 4th Avenue "Park" Avenue).

Per Alex (01 Sep 1999):  "The sign on the streetpole to the right of the train says W.49th St.  This means the shot was taken from a building (probably a rooftop) on the corner of W. 48th St., looking north along 11th Ave.  The park on the left side of the Ave is between 52 and 53 Sts and is still there.  The Packard dealer is still a car dealership, although I forget which one.  The photo is dated 6-25-36."

The weather's warm in what will become the Big Apple (shirtsleeves, shorts, rag-top down) and pipe the brakie riding nonchalantly on the walkway of that first boxcar!

The NYC experimentals* were the triple-power locos used on the West Side Freight Line in Manhattan on oil-electric, third rail, battery, and overhead wire (300-hp 600V #1526-1560), as well as on the DL&W (300-hp 3,000V #3501 and #3502), Detroit 3rd rail (300-hp 600V ex-NYC), MC (300-hp #7350-7353), and RI (300-hp #10000, Chicago's LaSalle and Central Stations)  My interest in these later boxcabs is minimal and I refer you to Pinkepank (1967), Marre (1995), and George Elwood's NYC page, which has the Class Drawing (with specs.) for the Central's DES-3 triple-power locomotives.  However, NYC #1500 was used briefly in passenger service on the Putnam Line and returned to ALCo and #1550, a 500-hp BIG mother, worked that line into the 1940s and is claimed as the first successful road diesel (as opposed to the first road switcher, which was LIRR #401).  Rick further sayeth that the IR demonstrator, #8835, which ran on the LIRR in February 1925, appears to have toured a lot of other railroads but nothing much else happened.

Pinkepank (1967) and Marre (1995) also picture the 1931 one-of-a-kind 100-ton Erie #25, with a single 800-hp I-R engine (see another photo of #25, above).

Marre (1995, page 143) shows that lone ARMCO 60-ton #747 with only one roof radiator and his caption might imply ("Armco 747 carries its air reservoirs in the space where one set of radiators would be in a dual-engine unit.") that it was only single-engined unit - odd!  All 60-ton units had only a single engine.

I have another problem with these listings; where are the Hoboken Manufacturers RR's two units?

* - Oh, heck, those triple-power units ARE boxcabs, so here's a bit more:

Hoo, boy, is this EVER a boxcab!

NYC #560 GE triple-power
(Image cropped from uncredited picture on Web)
[Thumbnail image - click on the picture for a larger image.]

It is the NYC #560 GE triple-power loco, one of a group of 44 built in 1930 for NYC, etc. (with 300HP 6-cyl,. IR 10x12 engines), some of which, such as NYC #1561 and #1562 (one of which was renumbered #566), MC (NYC) #7530-#7533, and RI #10000, were dual power for light passenger switching at Chicago's LaSalle Street and Central Stations, and others of which were triple power, such as NYC #1521-#1560 (two of which were renumbered to #543 and #560) running off 600V DC third rail and DL&W #3501-#3502 running off 3,000V DC catenary.

These locos were diesel(oil)-battery-electric, with the engines running at constant speed, charging lead-acid batteries which, in turn, powered the traction motors.  The batteries gave higher starting power.  The triple-powered units could also run directly from the third rail or catenary.

Incidentally, NYC 1500, 1525, and 1550 were AGEIR-built while 1561 and 1562 were just GEIR units.  More on NYC boxcabs at New York Central Boxcabs, et seq.  new.gif (17 Jan 2008)


Boxcab Cooling Problems

The frontispiece, above, shows the original ALCo-GE-IR production boxcab tube radiator configuration, with radiators mounted transversely on the roof ends, curved to match the roofline; one at each end on the 60-tonners and two on each end on the first 100-tonner, LIRR #401.  Apparently, these convection-cooled radiators were less than perfect because on most later units, and on #401, they were replaced by several varieties of forced-draft fan-cooled radiators of several different styles, primarily with vertical and transverse/lateral fans.

    See the Boxcabs "Home" Page and the Survivor Boxcabs Page for the earlier pre-production models.

Cooling was such a severe problem for RRL #502 that at one point she dragged around a water tanker* to keep her down to operating temperature until a transverse fan-cooled arrangement could be substituted for her original radiator configuration (which, oddly enough, consisted of one extra-long tube radiator at each end, arranged transversely like #401, but horizontally without being curved); here she is as built and as she was being sold to Armco to become their #E103.

Norm Metcalf of Boulder, Colorado, advised (12 Oct 00) that RRL sold #502 to Armco Steel in 1940 (per page 286 of Hanft's "Red River - " book).

RRL #502 orig. rad. closeup   RRL #502 later rad. closeup
Details of photos courtesy of James B. Bryant

The full photos appear on LIRR #401 and Sisters page 1,
along with some more information.

* - Since I have now (20 Jan 01) seen a photo of #502 in fire train service, with a water tanker behind, I really wonder about that water tanker story; of course she dragged a tanker, it was for fighting fires!

Hanft writes that #502 also had severe traction motor cooling problems, so bad that soldered connections melted, resulting in abrupt termination of operation!  GE's solution was to redo the connections with silver solder.  HOT STUFF!

Marre (1995) writes that American Rolling Mills (ARMCO) requested that GE design the side-exhausting (what I call transverse) radiator arrangement for its #E-101, which was fitted to all subsequent GE units and retrofitted to many older ALCo and GE locos.

So, now what do we make of that lone ARMCO GE 60-ton #747 with only one roof radiator (Marre, 1995, page 143)?  Not to mention all the regular units with original-style radiators that ran seemingly forever without cooling problems!


Original GE Outline Drawing 437416, Index E-318-34,
  of 60-ton Oil-Electric Locomotive Class B-B-120/120-0-4HM840G.

Thumbnail of 300+Kb GE 60-ton outline drawing
[Click on the picture for a VERY large image.]

Crop of Original GE Outline Drawing 437416, Index E-318-34,
of 60-ton Oil-Electric Locomotive Class B-B-120/120-0-4HM840G.

For whatever reason, this drawing did not scan and upload well; sorry!
I loaded it as a 200kB+ *.jpg file in error and have reloaded it as a 300kB+ *.gif file,
which seems to have helped, and now have created a thumbnail to reduce page downloading time.

The"original" (my youngest-generation copy) of that GE Outline Drawing 437416 turned up in an old file on 12 Mar 2014, so I rescanned it at 300dpi and you can see it for yourself, in full, by clicking HERE.  Even though it has been stored flat for many years, the folds still show; sorry 'bout that.   new (13 Mar 2014)


OE-601 GE Boxcab Class Drawing
Drawing courtesy of Portola RR Museum -
I took a digital photo of it but will scan a better copy)

This engine is not much like LIRR #402 (first), but rather very much more like LIRR #402 (but with fully-rounded ends), Foley Bros. #110-1, and RRL #502, but I don't know what loco was designated "OE-601".

Note that it has the alternate horizontal-fan radiator system.


BOXCAB DIMENSIONS from the LIRR #401 and Sister Boxcabs Page

Because the dimensions can't be read, even on my "original" copy, here is what can't be read, for scaling reference:

                     Overall  O'all   Truck   Wheel  Deck    O'all    O'all

                     Length    WB      WB      Dia.  Height  Height   Width
60t/300HP - #1000/#1  30' 0"  17' 0"  7' 2"    36"    48"    13' 9½"  9' 4"
100t/600HP - #401     40' 0"  29' 0"  7' 2"    36"


For those so detail-oriented that it matters, please note the popular misconception that the early 60-ton boxcabs were longitudinally symmetrical; plans (as above) and photos in my files show that the exhaust stacks and roof appurtenances above the engine hatch between the radiators were offset 18" to the rear (away from the "F" or "A" or engineer's end), presumably with the engine to make room for the cab (but see below).

Also, in the November 1956 TRAINS issue referenced herein, the front view shows the two stacks on B&O #1/#195 offset slightly (perhaps 6") to the left in the picture which is to the right on the engine.  I'd never noticed this before since I am mostly concerned with LIRR #401, a twin-engined 100-tonner with four stacks!

Apparently, although they look double-ended, there was only one cab (at least, that's what the GE drawing appears to show).  Does anyone have proof to the contrary?  Yup!  Me!  I found the above photo of CNJ #1000 with a fireman sitting in the end with the stacks clearly towards him!  I'll have to ask the B&O Museum to let me photograph the interior of #1000 [ah!, but see above I-R info. and the I-R page].

GE also built some odd transfer locomotives for the Illinois Central in 1936, #9200 and 9201, similar to the #9202 EMD unit; coverage has been moved to the GE Boxcabs page and expanded.


For the ALCohaulic:

The ALCo Historic Photos* collection is reasonably safe and sound, not all 10,000 or so pictures any more, but lots, anyway, in Schenectady, New York, under the protective wing of the Mohawk-Hudson Chapter of the NRHS and run by a dedicated group of volunteers.   rev (30 May 2013)

  [* - New link May 2013]

The AHP currently has no posted e-mail address.  Write to them at:

Alco Historic Photos
P. O. Box 655
Schenectady, NY 12301

or use their on-line form.   added (30 May 2013)

In 1993, I bought a copy of their invaluable (to me) print #S-1494, a 3/4 top view of LIRR #401, showing desperately-needed as-built roof detail.

Ca. the '70s, ALCO built a huge diesel-hydraulic, the C-C H-643.  Needless to say, it instantly became the "ALCohaulic"!

For more on this 75' 10", 4,300HP monster, see Testing the ALCohaulics", by Harold Crouch, on the the NRHS Mohawk-Hudson Chapter's site, replete with specs and a photo.

M-H Chapter's page also notes that Walter P. Chrysler was the works manager for ALCo's Allegheny Plant and left in 1911 to move to Detroit to work for Buick Motor Company (Chrysler Corporation was founded on 06 June 1924).

There are a few sites specializing in ALCo's; start with Tom Gibson's ALCoHaulers and Motive Power Review, Andrew Toppan's old page, as well as Rolf Stumpf's ALCo WORLD.  For other ALCo links and more on ALCo, see the ALCo Love Song on my Railroad page.


HMRR, HTRR, and C&NW BOXCABS

Paul R. Tupaczewski has a page on the Hoboken Manufacturers Railroad (later the Hoboken Shore RR), near Stevens Institute of Technology at Castle Point, which "started off with steam locomotives - - - and a pair of steeplecab electric switchers - - - .  Later on, dieselization's benefits were quickly discovered, and a pair of boxcabs (numbers 500 and 600) were ordered."  Paul tells about them and shows three pictures, taken in 1949 by Donald Van Court, then a Stevens student, which he's given me permission to reproduce here.

One is of #500 resting "at the 14th Street Enginehouse.  Directly behind the unit is HMRR boxcab 600.":

HMRR #500

"Coming and going are good descriptions of - - - two views of HMRR boxcab 600, heading down 'Sinatra Drive' (River Road) towards the Castle Point Pier."

HMRR #600 {Pic. 1}

HMRR #600 {Pic. 2}

Preceeding three HMRR photographs copyright Donald Van Court 1949, 1998.

My thanks to Mark Laundry for the HMRR and C&NW leads.

The New Jersey Midland Railroad Historical Society also has a photo of one of the HMRR boxcabs (hiding behind a HMRR GE 44-tonner).

John Scala caught me up short on 15 Mar 98; he told me that the Harlem Terminal was an actual railroad, not merely a location, and that they had early boxcabs lettered for the HTRR!  John gave me a lead to more info on the Harlem Terminal; I'll follow this up and report back.  Immediately following this comes a report from Bill Russell that the DL&W had a second GE-IR-ALCo, 1926 300HP #3002, which became Harlem Transfer #2; he has a new Harlem Transfer page - have a look!

Here, from Bill's site, is HT #2 in all her glory:

HT #2 E. St. Louis 1962
Harlem Transfer Ingersoll-Rand #2 in Jersey City, April 1962
Photographer: F. Byerly (JSF Collection)
(image from Bill Russell's Pennybridge site).
[Thumbnail image - click on the picture for the full image.]

Don Ross has a full page on the Chicago & Northwestern's boxcabs.

Don's page led me to the rather neat Lehigh Valley site of James Mack, where I learned that LV #99 came used in 1932, rebuilt by I-R, was Utah Copper Co. #600.

Here is a crop from James Mack's photo of the Lehigh Valley #100 60-tonner "switching cars in New York City in the late 1920s":

LVRR #100

I had written that there may be something odd about the radiators on #100; there appears to be a single radiator at the front and two regular ones at the rear; it may simply be an artifact of a telephoto lens view.  This photo is wildly distorted; LV #100 is most definitely an early (no end door) 60-tonner.


My "belovèd" Pennsy didn't even get on board until 1928, with three boxcabs they built in their own Juniata shops (of course).


BOXCAB MISCELLANY

The question was raised, "Are the GE Shovelnose export engines boxcabs?"  ALCo powered versions worked in Argentina and Uruguay and other versions were the famous White Pass & Yukon units and the Philippine National Railways engines.  It's a fair question, especially since I include the Alton shovelnoses and such and even the EMD E6 boxcab versions; but this is MY site and I choose not to cover them; they are standard, late-model, diesels and belong elsewhere (BUT - - - , see my Shovelnoses section on GE Boxcabs).


BOXCAB HELP

I will post reasonable requests here, solely at my own discretion:

#401 Truck Detail {for me} - does anyone know where I can get drawings or close-up photos of the odd-ball (perhaps one-of a kind) trucks on LIRR #401, the first 100-tonner?  Unlike the 60-ton trucks, which had a straight flat iron from the bottom of one journal to the other, the iron on #401 was bent outward most of its length, except under the journals, while still horizontally flat (in plan view)!  You can't really tell if it's like that on the LIRR #402 and the later 100-ton trucks were quite different (as on Foley Bros. #110-1, the only 100-tonner surviving).

GE Shovelnoses {for BS} - would someone knowledgeable please advise where to find detail on the GE Shovelnose export engines noted in Miscellany, above?  How about on GE Boxcabs, Shovelnoses (other than that on Page 2 as noted above)?

Anent shovelnoses, Sr. Benoit, who supplied the Urugaian shovelnose photos, has a question about some NY-supplied Urugaian steam(-cum-i.c.) railcars; see the end of Steam Boxcabs on my Boxcabs page 5.

I've known all along that oil-electrics and diesels are different; supposedly (per Portola's The Train Sheet, Sep-Oct 93, pg. 5), "oil-electric" engines actually run on the Diesel cycle (solid or fuel injection) whereas so-called "diesels" run on a direct injection of air; this didn't work out well and solid injection became the norm but the term "diesel" stuck.  Does anyone out there really know?  One thing I DO know is that anti-German sentiment lingering after WWI engendered the use of the term "oil-electric" over "Diesel".

Which was the very last of the classic boxcab series to run regularly in revenue service?  Was it 100-ton Foley Bros. #110-1 at UI in July 1963, or the I-R #91 ca. 1976, or the UC #11 in July 1977?  Or could it be one that didn't survive?

Hal Carstens, late publisher of RAILROAD MODEL CRAFTSMAN and RAILFAN & RAILROAD magazines, vaguely recalled an O-scale boxcab model, ca. early 1950s, made of flat cast Zamac pieces that screwed together (sounds almost like an Erector or Meccano set, but from Zamac); does anyone have any info. on any such?

See the request for a GE boxcab catalog immediately above.



LEGACY

  What happens to all this when I DIE or (heaven forfend!) lose interest?  See LEGACY.


There are now more than seventy-five (75) BOXCAB pages;
see the full INDEX, now on a separate page.


COPYRIGHT NOTICE

See Copyright Notice on primary home page.



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To tour the Boxcabs pages in sequence, the arrows take you from the Boxcabs index page to the first Boxcabs page, to continuation pages 1 and up, then 100-tonner LIRR #401 and her sisters, survivor boxcabs (with map) and survivor notes, survivor CNJ #1000 (the very first), Ingersoll-Rand boxcabs (with instruction manual), other (non-ALCo/GE/I-R) boxcabs, Baldwin-Westinghouse boxcabs, odd boxcabs, and finally model boxcabs.



© Copyright S. Berliner, III - 1999, 2001, 2002, 2005, 2008, 2011, 2013, 2014  - all rights reserved.


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