S. Berliner, III's sbiii.com Long Island Motor Parkway Open Items Page keywords = Long Island Motor Parkway Vanderbilt toll road limited access highway Horace Harding boulevard automotive auto car truck car history Miller

Updated:   17 Jun 2015; 19:35  ET
[Page created 16 Mar 2002; converted 17 Jul 2012;

    original AT&T Worldnet Website begun 30 May 1996.]
Update info on the top on ALL pages for your convenience.

URL:  http://sbiii.com/limpopen.html
[was at "home.att.net/~Berliner-Ultrasonics/limpopen.html"]

S. Berliner, III
Consultant in Ultrasonic Processing
"changing materials with high-intensity sound"

[consultation is on a fee basis]

Technical and Historical Writer, Oral Historian
Popularizer of Science and Technology
Rail, Auto, Air, Ordnance, and Model Enthusiast
Light-weight Linguist, Lay Minister, and Putative Philosopher



note - The vast bulk of my massive Web presence (over 485 pages) had been hosted by AT&T's WorldNet service since 30 May 1996; they dropped WorldNet effective 31 Mar 2010 and I have been scrambling to transfer everything.  Everything's saved but all the links have to be changed, mostly by hand.  See my sbiii.com Transfer Page for any updates on this tedious process.

[Please note that these pages could also have been accessed as URL http://berliner-ultrasonics.home.att.net/lim*.html,
a
"vanity" URL (q.v.) that did not require the tilde (~), as was true of ALL of my old pages.}


S. Berliner, III's

sbiii.com

Long Island Motor Parkway Open Items Page

LONG ISLAND MOTOR PARKWAY

a.k.a. Vanderbilt Motor Parkway

(and related matters)

Motor Parkway Panel Logo [If my discs weren't floppy, my photos wouldn't be LIMP!]

{No, LIMP does NOT refer to gender/sexual orientation!}

This site has now been visited times since the counter was installed.

Because the Main Page overloaded, please visit the many Continuation Pages noted on the LIMP Index page.


PAGE INDEX

note-rt.gif  The index on this page has been truncated to save page space; see the LIMP Index on the page preceding the main LIMP page.

On the main LIMP page:

HISTORY OF THE LONG ISLAND MOTOR PARKWAY,
    now continued on the LONG ISLAND MOTOR PARKWAY HISTORY page, et seq.

On Continuation Page 0:

LIMP POSTS (and reinforced concrete).
LONG ISLAND MOTOR PARKWAY TIMELINE.
LINKS to the LONG ISLAND MOTOR PARKWAY.
LONG ISLAND MOTOR PARKWAY BIBLIOGRAPHY.

On Continuation Page 1A*:

LONG ISLAND MOTOR PARKWAY TODAY.
LONG ISLAND MOTOR PARKWAY BRIDGES.
LONG ISLAND MOTOR PARKWAY at confluence of Marcus/Lakeville/NSParkway.

On Continuation Page 2:

More on the Long Island Motor Parkway.
Views of the Long Island Motor Parkway Today.
I. U. Willets Road Fragment.
Roslyn Road Fragment.
Bridge at Old Bethpage Village Restoration.
Horace Harding (of Boulevard fame).

On Continuation Page 3:

Crossings from Roslyn Road to the Maxess Road Bridge.

On Continuation Page 4:

Old Courthouse Road Bridge, New Hyde Park.
Garden City Toll Lodge.
Crossings Continued - Maxess/Duryea Road Bridge.
More on Duryea Road Crossing.

On Continuation Page 5:

LI MOTOR PARKWAY SPURS.
PERSONAL LI MOTOR PARKWAY APOCRYPHA,
   and now continued on the LIMP Apocrypha Page.
LEVITTOWN GRANDSTAND AREA
DEAD MAN'S CURVE REDIVIVUS.

On Continuation Page 6:

LI MOTOR PARKWAY at WlLLISTON/ALBERTSON/SEARINGTOWN
Dubious Artifact at NSP/NHP Road.
Queens Vignettes.

On Continuation Page 7:

OLD BETHPAGE AREA Update.
ROUTE 110 SAND PITS AREA Update.

On Continuation Page 8:

North Hills.
Mineola - Carle Place.

Continuation Page 9:

LONG ISLAND MOTOR PARKWAY at confluence of
    Marcus/Lakeville/NSParkway, continued
    (with Great Neck Toll Lodge).
Road Names - Old and New (and Bogus).

Continuation Page 10:

Additional WILLISTON-NEW HYDE PARK ROAD Documentation.
Bronx River Parkway.

On Continuation Page 11:

1941 Queens Aerial Photos.
i.Park Aerial Photos (Lakeville Road Bridge).
NEWSDAY Errata.

On the Queens Page:

Western Terminus
    (193rd-199th St./Peck Av./Underhill Blvd./Horace Harding Blvd./LIE).

On Queens Continuation Page 1:

Alley Pond and Environs.

On Queens Continuation Page 2:

Fresh Meadows Ballfields and Theater

On Queens Continuation Page 3:

Western Terminus - continued
    (193rd-199th St./Peck Av./Underhill Blvd./Horace Harding Blvd./LIE).
VANDERBILT MOTOR PARKWAY - Cunningham Park - NYC Parks Placard
    (moved there from this page 05 Jun 04).
MOTOR PARKWAY - 14.049 acres - NYC Parks Placard.

On the Suffolk Page:

Eastern Terminus (Lake Ronkonkoma).

On this LIMP Open Items Page:

Open LIMP Matters - Questions and Speculations.
    (moved to this page 16 Mar 2002)

The LIMP Tour Page:

QUEENS COUNTY.
NASSAU COUNTY.
SUFFOLK COUNTY.


This page covers additional information and photographs of this interesting old highway; see also my Automotive, Chrysler, Dudgeon (really!), Mercedes, and SS and JAGUAR car pages and other related pages.

A Motor Parkway Panel has been convened to keep the LIMP alive in minds and museums.


RoW = Right-of-Way.


Open LIMP Questions and Speculations.

Puzzlements, Problems, and P'raps's

HELP!

(moved from LIMP Page 2 on 16 Mar 2002)

Material formerly here re the VANDERBILT MOTOR PARKWAY - Cunningham Park historical placard placed on the foot/bikebridge over Francis Lewis Boulevard (about halfway between Union Turnpike and the 73rd Street overpass and immediately E of 199th Street, opposite 75th Avenue, has been moved to LIMP Queens Page 3.


16 Apr 1999 - An employee of LIPA (the local power utility, successor to LILCO), based out of Hicksville, wrote "of an area that may be related to the" Central Railroad of Long Island.  "On the LIPA RoW east of Jerusalem Avenue in Levittown, there is an area of concrete that looks out of place".  "It's about 50 yds. into the RoW, on the south side".  "Visibly, it's about 20 ft. long x 8 ft. wide; it may be larger than that.  It sure sounded to me like the site of a LIMP facility, possibly the Bethpage toll lodge; was I ever wrong!  The "pad" in question is between Meridian Road and Mallard Road, which my trusty Hagstrom's places about a third of a mile north of Hempstead Turnpike.  I was there 18 Apr 99 (with a film camera), convinced that it is the location of the Bethpage Toll Lodge, but Panelist Vince Fitzgerald tells me it is definitely the Central RoW; "the LIMP in this general area was 1/8 mile north.  The streets forming the southern boundary of the LIMP are Orchid and Polaris."  Here's a map of the area courtesy of Vince Fitzgerald, showing the two RsoW:

Central RR vs. LIMP RoW
(Click on the thumbnail to download a 257,834Kb image)

The LIPA guy further advised (Sep 1999) that the pad measures "exactly 90 ft. long by 20ft. wide, and is 75 yds. into the ROW east of Jerusalem Ave."  Panelist Tom Walsh (16 Oct 1999) vaguely recollected that the pad may be "the site of the reviewing stand from the pre-LIMP Vanderbilt Cup races".


Another correspondent asked (23 Sep 1999) why Willie the K. didn't attend the groundbreaking ceremony?  On further reflection (research), same answered it himself; Mr. Vanderbilt's father-in-law (actually his step-father, Oliver Hazard Perry Belmont), was near death at that point and in fact died in the next day or two; Willie may have been with his wife at the bed side, but the correspondent didn't have any confirmation and further thought Mr. V. was conspicuous by his absence (he was - 2nd V. P. Arthur Pardington read Willie's speech).   rev (17 Jul 2012)

That same new correspondent also wanted "Dead Man's Curve" moved to a museum from its location SW of Bethpage State Park!  Now THAT would be a neat trick!  However, he put me in mind of taking my trusty new digital SLR on out there, and to the Old Bethpage Village bridge and the New Highway/Maxess/Ruland/Duryea Road area, with its bridge site, as well.  On my trip to BSP on 24 Sep 1999, I couldn't find the Curve and on my return on 25 Mar 2000 missed it at first (see DEAD MAN'S CURVE REDIVIVUS).

I'm rapidly running out of room on all the existing LIMP pages on this site so here's as good a place as any (with room) to put a Jun 2002 photo of the Maxess Road bridge abutments, which you can compare to my 1999 shots, followed by current (Sep 2004) photos from Panel Friend Pat Masterson showing just how magnificently Oxford Management Services cleaned up the then-rapidly-deteriorating site:

Jun 2002:

Maxess Jun 2002
(Jun 2002 photo - provenance unknown - SB,III? - all rights reserved)
[Click on the thumbnail for larger image]

Sep 2004

Maxess Sep 2004 - 3
(Sep 2004 photo by and © 2004 P. Masterson - all rights reserved)

Maxess Sep 2004 - 4
(Sep 2004 photo by and © 2004 P. Masterson - all rights reserved)

Maxess Sep 2004 - 1
(Sep 2004 photo by and © 2004 P. Masterson - all rights reserved)

Maxess Sep 2004 - 2
(Sep 2004 photo by and © 2004 P. Masterson - all rights reserved)

You can see that the first shot above matches the previous one almost exactly, both looking due E; then the area as Oxford cleaned it up, then the E curb looking NNW with a marker in the distance, the marker more evidently, and finally up close.

Uh, oh!  Something's amiss at Maxess!  I was told that the embankments are gone and that the abutments are exposed and threatened; Rob Gerard sent along this photo (compare it to the preceeding ones) (11 May 2005):

Maxess May 2005
(May 2005 photo by R. Gerard - all rights reserved)

This doesn't look as bad as I'd heard.  Let's hope that this only represents an attempt to enlarge the parking facility, not to destroy the abutments!  We'll look into this and advise.

Rob also found my take on where the RoW crossed Pinelawn Road to be off; much more on this to follow but, in brief, there is an elevated roadway in the brush on the traffic island that separates the N/B and S/B sections of Pinelawn Road; that is the old Pinelawn Road.  Following that elevated road S, you can see where the LIMP went under Pinelawn Road; there is a large pile of concrete just before the sump which was most likely from Pinelawn Road because there is no layer of blacktop.  Here's Rob's photo of that pile of concrete (11 May 2005):

Pinelawn May 2005
(May 2005 photo by R. Gerard - all rights reserved)

I'll have to get out there and pinpoint all this and Rob's take on the LIMP/Maxess/Duryea/Ruland area for you.

On (22 Aug 2001), a LIMP Listee wanted to know, "Did the LIMP bridge over the NSP (just west of Lakeville Road) also extend over Marcus Avenue?"  I replied,"No, the bridge clearly only spanned the then-four lane NSP.  Marcus doesn't show clearly on my aerials.  It doesn't even appear to extend into the LIMP RoW.  But on an old Hagstrom's, it shows the abandoned RoW as going OVER Marcus and a post-closure aerial shows Marcus extending across both the RoW and Lakeville at what appears to be grade.  I now, thanks to Panel Associate Howard Kroplick, have aerial photos clearly showing the LIMP bridge over Marcus - they will appear one of these days (24 Sep 2004).


On or about 23 Mar 2002, LIMP enthusiast Dr. David Eisenberg was in both the woods north of the LIPA Row west of Bagatelle and in the woods north of Threepence Drive {what follows is edited slightly}.  East of Bagatelle, he found the Parkway remnant running along a ridge.  In both areas, he found approximately 8 inch diameter pipes sticking out from the west sides of the ridge and was curious if those were drainage pipes from the Parkway.  He does remember another LIMP site (probably Michael Abbey's) talking about the repaving of the Queens LIMP bikebath and how old 90 year old drainage grates were removed at that time.  We should go to the Wheatley Heights area to see if we can find any grates near those pipes atop the parkway.  In some areas, there were too many leaves and brambles to do so {tell me about it, Doc!}.  David asks if anyone knows of any areas of remanent parkway in Nassau {or others in Suffolk - SB,III} with evidence of its old drainage system?

East of Bagatelle, north of Threepence wooded area, Dr. E. had difficulty finding the RoW in the brambles and leaves {I can attest to this problem - and have!}.  He came upon a ridge with trees and thorns and twigs that he presumed was just a hill (one of many in aptly named Half Hollow HILLS) but saw a pipe coming out of the west side about three feet down from the top of the hillock or ridge or whatever but didn't think anything of it until he traveled south on Bagatelle to the west-of-Bagatelle LIPA RoW and followed the plateau that he knew to be the LIMP right of way northward into the woods.  At some point, he noticed a similar pipe coming out of the west side of the plateau/ridge that he was walking on and had the realization that this might be the same type of pipe from that ridge northeast of there.  He went back to the first ridge east of Bagatelle a few weeks later, found the pipe, climbed up a less bramble-filled area atop the ridge, and found pavement.  Thus he presumed the pipe probably drained the Parkway.

I'll have to go in there with Dr. E. or on my own with the ol' digital and record this.  Now, does anyone know for sure about these pipes and has anyone run across drain grates, manhole covers, or any other such artifacts of the original LIMP?


Williston Park Marker

The far-sighted Village of Williston Park bought the RoW of the LIMP east of Willis Avenue and preserved it for future use.  The far end is the village pool and the near end is the parking lot for the American Legion Hall abutting it on the south, but in between, once used as a firemanic training field, is original LIMP paving.  On 18 May 2003, the Village and its Historical Society held a lovely ceremony to celebrate the unveiling of an historical marker describing the RoW.  Spearheading the whole thing were Deputy Mayor Ray Cross and Trustee (and Motor Parkway Panel Friend) Bob Valentine.  Mayor Doreen R. Ehrbar and fomer Mayor Roger Fay addressed the gathering and historical brochures were handed out.  Yours truly lauded the assemblage for their foresight and pioneering.  Locals drove in in old cars appropriate to the Parkway's age (1908-1938) and Panel Friend Howard Kroplick took photos, a sampling of which are shown here (some heavily cropped):

The assembled visitors:
Will Pk Ceremony 19 May 03 f
Photos by and courtesy of H. Kroplick - all rights reserved)

Mayor Ehrbar (left), with Trustee Mary Ann McDermott (right), and yours truly addressing the multitude,
with Ray Cross on the left and a backdrop of cars, and me squinting fiercely:
Will Pk Ceremony 19 May 03 h

Will Pk Ceremony 19 May 03 c Will Pk Ceremony 19 May 03 b
That's former mayor Roger Fay's 1926 Chrysler 66 at the left and my old colleague
Rudy Rosenberg's stately 1938 Rolls and Bob Valentine's maroon 1926 Chevy in the background
(the gentleman in the boater and patriotic stripes is Rudy).

Here's the object of the whole thing and Bob Valentine and yours truly flanking it:
Will Pk Ceremony 19 May 03 e Will Pk Ceremony 19 May 03 d

After the ceremony, the cars were paraded down the old RoW and back:
Will Pk Ceremony 19 May 03 a
You can see the 3' concrete extensions on either side
of the asphalt overlay in the middle distance.

Lastly, here's former Mayor Roger Fay in his 1926 Chrysler 66
and Ruth Valentine holding LIMP car tag #459:
Will Pk Ceremony 19 May 03 g Will Pk Ceremony 19 May 03 i
Photos by and courtesy of H. Kroplick - all rights reserved)

The metal car tags were an early version of the Easy-Pass and this one is the property of Bob and Ruth Valentine (shown holding it above) and Ruth was kind enough to send me this detail shot of their plate (bought at, appropriately enough, a tag sale:

LIMP Car Tag #459
(photo courtesy of R. Valentine - all rights reserved)

Someone else brought black-on-white 1934 car tag #175, attributed (through initials and a date scratched on the back) to Mrs. Whitney (photos, anyone?).

What Williston Park did here is truly laudable; let it be the tip of an iceberg!


I was asked about an alleged Toll Lodge just south of the entrance to North Shore-LIJ Medical Center on Lakeville Road and said I doubted that it was LIMP-related, that is probably a gatehouse, but for the old Hillside Hospital; I've been there several times now, and I don't even see it as any kind of gatehouse at all.  It's at the SE corner of the dead end of 76th Avenue, on the grounds of the small Episcopal church on Lakeville Road, a short block east of Hewlett Avenue.  The actual Great Neck Toll Lodge still exists as the rear of the mini-mansion just north of the Great Neck South schools driveway; it's all here at Great Neck Toll Lodge.  The church is nearly a ½-mile south of the LIMP RoW (and the Vanderbilt mansion was a -mile north of that).  This house is nowhere near the LIMP and it's also 'way far east of the original Hillside Hospital (my guess that it's just an ordinary 19-teens/1920s mock-Tudor home is all wrong) (22 Aug 2003, etc.):

LIJ Tudor House 1 LIJ Tudor House 2 LIJ Tudor House 5

The first two shots are from the parking lot behind the church (I touched out garbage) and the next from the E (dead) end of 76th Road, looking SE; the next two identify the church):

LIJ Tudor House 1 LIJ Tudor House 5
22 Aug 2003 photos by and © 2003 S. Berliner, III - all rights reserved)
[Thumbnail images; click on the pictures for larger images]

Thanks to LIMP enthusiast Howard Kroplick, the mystery is now solved; the house was INDEED a gatehouse and a Vanderbilt one at that, but NOT for the LIMP.  It was the south gatehouse of Willie K's "Deepdale" estate and was picked up bodily and moved to the grounds of (supposedly) the Long Island Jewish Hospital (I'll bet it was Hillside Hospital then but will check further) and here it is, up on wheels and ready to roll (LIJ Hospital Archives photo courtesy of Dr. Jack Binder, historian for the village of Lake Success):

WKVJr So Gatehouse
(Photo courtesy David Taylor Archives, North Shore-LIJ Health System - all rights reserved)
{Thanks to Dr. J. Binder for making the image available to us.}
[Thumbnail image; click on the picture for a larger image]

The history of the move is that Hillside Hospital was built on its current site in 1940-41, moving from a location in Westchester.  When the group got together to build LIJ, they rented the Eastern end of the Hillside property for $1/year.  Both were Federation of Jewish Philanthropies institutions, which may explain the token payment.  It appears that the only stipulation was that LIJ could not open a psychiatric facility without Hillside's permission.  [From NS-LIJHS's David Taylor Archives]

There are several questions about this move - why? - when?  Per Howard Kroplick, this house was indeed designed by Willie K.'s favored LIMP architect, John Russell Pope.

Howard furnished two more images for us; one of the gatehouse in situ at Willie K's estate and one of the move nearly over, with the church at the right of the photo - I thumbnailed both but the second was a bit of a surprise since the thumbnail was severely cropped and the full image revealed a very different landscape than now:

WKVJr So Gatehouse in Situ WKVJr So Gatehouse in Transit
(Lower image courtesy of the LIJ Hospital Archives)
{Thanks to H. Kroplick for making the images available to us.}
[Thumbnailed images; click on the pictures for larger images]

That's Lakeville Road beyond the two buildings.  The church was founded in 1950 and it's the same church; on 29 Dec 2003, I was over at NS-LIJ and shot these photos from the third level of the parking garage to the west:

So Gatehouse and Church 1 So Gatehouse and Church 2

Then I went down to 76th Road and Hewlett Avenue and shot the church and the gatehouse together, looking ESE:

So Gatehouse and Church 3

Finally, I drove around to Lakeville Road and shot the church and the house looking NW and W:

So Gatehouse and Church 4 So Gatehouse and Church 5
29 Dec 03 photos by and © 2003 S. Berliner, III - all rights reserved)
[Thumbnail images; click on the pictures for larger images]

[More on this gatehouse to follow.]


Elsewhere, I note that the LIMP RoW runs along 74th Road in Queens and becomes the west parking lot at North Shore-LIJ Medical Center; a while back I noticed that there is construction there and the sign was most interesting, indeed!  It calls the lot the "Motor Parkway Employee Parking Lot"!  When I went back to photograph the odd Tudor house at the diagonal opposite end of the Center, I took these photos; first the sign in full and then the sign edge-on from 74th, looking E at the LIJ powerhouse stack to locate things:

LIJ Parking Lot Sign 1 LIJ Parking Lot Sign 2
22 Aug 2003 photos by and © 2003 S. Berliner, III - all rights reserved)
[Thumbnail images; click on the pictures for larger images]



LEGACY

  What happens to all this when I DIE or (heaven forfend!) lose interest?  See LEGACY.

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See Copyright Notice on primary home page.



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