S. Berliner, III's Long Island Rail Road Page 1a keywords = rail road way model train Z HO scale Ztrack Long Island Dashing Dan Dottie steam diesel boxcab locomotive restoration Pennsylvania Pennsy PRR Kiesel Berlinerwerke Vest Pocket Degnon Brooklyn Eastern District Terminal BEDT New York Atlantic Cross Harbor Dock Black River Western

Updated:   25 May 2015; 15:00  ET
[Page converted ~29 Jan 2011>

    original AT&T Worldnet Website begun 30 May 1996.]
URL:  http://sbiii.com/lirr1etc.html
[was at "home.att.net/~Berliner-Ultrasonics/lirr1etc.html"]

S. Berliner, III
Consultant in Ultrasonic Processing
"changing materials with high-intensity sound"

[consultation is on a fee basis]

Technical and Historical Writer, Oral Historian
Popularizer of Science and Technology
Rail, Auto, Air, Ordnance, and Model Enthusiast
Light-weight Linguist, Lay Minister, and Putative Philosopher



note - The vast bulk of my massive Web presence (over 485 pages) had been hosted by AT&T's WorldNet service since 30 May 1996; they dropped WorldNet effective 31 Mar 2010 and I have been scrambling to transfer everything.  Everything's saved but all the links have to be changed, mostly by hand.  See my sbiii.com Transfer Page for any updates on this tedious process.


S. Berliner, III's

sbiii.com

Long Island Rail Road Page 1a

RAILROADING



LONG ISLAND RAIL ROAD

continued

(and related Long Island railroad information)

LIRR Keystone

[this page was separated out from my RAILROAD, LI Rail Road, and LI Railroads pages, et seq.;
you might wish to see them also.]


NOTE:  Page size was limited by HTML to some 30kB; thus, I was forced to add this continuation page to fit the LIRR
and related information and even other continuation pages, et seq.


There are two related topics here on these pages:
(1) The Long Island Rail Road and (2) Long Island railroad information.

There IS a difference!

The Long Island Rail Road is the official name of the oldest Class 1 railroad still operating under its original name and charter (since 1834 - the B&O was older, having been chartered in 1827 and opened to traffic in 1830 but has been subsumed into CSX).  Although there were (and even are) some rolling stock and some official documents with the two words combined, the correct name of the LIRR has the two words separately:

"Long Island Rail Road"!

    More on this name nonsense below.


INDEX:

If these links don't work, click "back" and scroll down!

NOTE:  To conserve space, I have severely truncated the index on this page; click HERE to go directly to a separate, full LIRR index page.

ALCO-GE-IR BOXCABS
    including LIRR boxcabs #401, the world's first production diesel road switcher,
    #402 (first and second), #403, and many others.

Brooklyn Eastern District Terminal Railroad,
    and its successor roads, the New York Cross Harbor Railroad and New York Regional Rail.

Degnon Terminal Railroad, etc.

MODEL RAILROADING

On the preceding (first) LIRR page:
    Long Island Sunrise-Trail Chapter (National Railway Historical Society)
    Sunrise Trail Division (Northeastern Region, National Model Railroad Association)
    Steam Locomotive #35 Restoration Committee
    (Friends OF LOCOMOTIVE #35 INCORPORATED/Oyster Bay Railroad Museum)
    Restoration of Pennsy Class G5 Long Island Rail Road 4-6-0 #35
    Steam Locomotive #39 Restoration
    (Railroad Museum of Long island)
    Restoration of Pennsy Class G5 Long Island Rail Road 4-6-0 #39

On this LIRR Continuation Page 1a:
    LIRR FIRSTS (moved here from LI Railroads Continuation Page on 10 Dec 01)
    LIRR Double-Deckers.
    LIRR Miscellany
    LIRR Cross-Sound Service - Oyster Bay to Wilson Point   link-add (21 Nov 2013)
    Oyster Bay Station in 1900   link-add (21 Nov 2013)
    Morris Park Maps
    LIRR BIBLIOGRAPHY (moved to its own page from this page on 01 Mar 02)

On LIRR Continuation Page 2:
    Odd Incident at Wreck Lead (on the LIRR)
    LIRR and LI Railroad Miscellany
    Converted LIRR HEP/Cab Control Units
    Central RR of LI - moved to Continuation Page 5 on 17 Dec 00.
    Dashing Dan and Dottie.

On LIRR Continuation Page 3:
    Nassau County Police 2nd Pct. Booth D/Locust Tower
    Victorian Stations Still Standing on the LIRR

On LIRR Continuation Page 4:
    Blissville and Laurel Hill Sidings, Maspeth Yard, and Fresh Pond Yard
        and NY&AR/NYCRR Interchange info.
    LIRR MISCELLANY - continued
    LIRR HELP

On LIRR Continuation Page 5:
    Central RR of LI - moved to its own page 17 Feb 02.
    LIRR DE30AC and DM30AC Locomotives.
    Victorian LIRR Stations (continued)
    Locust Valley Station
    Glen Street Station (update)
    Oyster Bay Station

On the LI Railroads Bibliography Page:
    LIRR BIBLIOGRAPHY (moved there from this page on 01 Mar 02
        and here from LI Railroads Continuation Page on 10 Dec 01)

On the LI Railroads Continuation Page:
    Other Railroads on LI.

On separate pages:

Long Island Live Steamers

The New York & Atlantic Railway, lessor of LIRR freight operations.

Brooklyn Historic Railway Association and the legendary LIRR Atlantic Avenue Tunnel.

Railroad Eagles - Penn Station, Grand Central Terminal, etc.

Note:  There is (or was) also a Long Island Rail Road Historical Society, formerly run by Dave Morrison, retired (May 1999) as Branch Line Manager - Port Jefferson, Oyster Bay, and Patchogue-to-Montauk Branches, and the reigning expert on the Penn Station (and Grand Central) eagles*; it's an internal LIRR employees and retirees group which can be reached by snail-mail at "Oyster Bay Train Station, Oyster Bay, New York  11771" (where they have an exhibit in the waiting room).  Dave is also the author of a book of LIRR steam locomotive photos (see the LIRR Bibliography - with a special offer for readers of my RR pages).


Long Island Live Steamers (LILS)

A great group of miniature live steam (and diesel and electric) operators running at mostly 1" scale (also some 1" and rare 3/4") in Southhaven Park at the intersection of William Floyd Parkway (Suffolk County Route 46) and Sunrise Highway (U.S. Route 27).
Their site, with their PUBLIC RUNNING SCHEDULE, has been moved to a
separate page.

SOME OTHER LIVE STEAM LINKS:

Ron Stewart's LIVE STEAMING LINK - this is now on a new server,
Roger Luxley's LIVING STEAM RAILWAYS page from England
    (which uses WAV - so beware), and
STEAM IN THE GARDEN.

See also HOW TO BOOT A STEAM LOCOMOTIVE or
    How to hostle without really tiring -
    (Firing up a cold oil burner - 1:1 scale, that is).

MAJOR REFERENCE LINK!

Jeff Scherb's great "The Model Train Magazine Index (new URL) - An index to Model Railroad magazines from 1933 to the present", formerly sponsored/hosted by Accurail and now by Kalmbach.

Accurail produces among the finest HO and N freight car models, Kalmbach is one of the two top RR publishers, and Jeff gives us an unparalled access to old articles on models and prototypes; while it's not particularly rich on LIRR prototypes (~37 entries), I strongly recommend Jeff's great work to you.


LIRR FIRSTS:

from "Leading the Pack"

a 1959 LIRR pamphlet - see bibliography.
    [moved here from LI Railroads Continuation Page on 10 Dec 01]

Here's a partial list of LIRR "firsts":

    * First to use hook-headed (now standard) track spike (1836).

    * First to install a steam whistle on a locomotive (1836).

    * First to provide "piggy-back" service, hauling farm wagons on flat cars (1885).

    * First to use an all-steel passenger car (1905).

    * First to install extensive main line electrification (1905).

    * First to use a diesel locomotive in road service (1926)@.

    * First to have an all-steel passenger car fleet (1927).

    * First to use electronic rail detector cars to spot invisible flaws in rail (1931).

This list taken in part from inside back cover of the LIRR's "Main Line to the Mainland" brochure of 1959 (see bibliography ff.).

In addition, that diesel, LIRR #401 was also the first to make a long-haul main line revenue run!



Long Island RAIL ROAD - the Name!

   

"Much Ado about Nothing"

As noted on the main LIRR page and above, The Long Island Rail Road is the official name, even though there were (and even are) some rolling stock and some official documents with the two words combined.  Jackson & Sharpe, the primary source for LIRR varnish in the glory days, was quite consistent in mislettering the name on the letterboards.  The 185_ Commutation Ticket blank shows two words but an 1861 poster shows one.  A "Sept. 15th 1875 Official Pocket Time Table" shows two and yet the official invitation to an inspection trip through "the Pennsylvania Station and Tunnels" for "Sept 2, 1910" shows one* while displaying the official seal of the LIRR with two!  The current (Oct 2002)
LIRR/MTA home page, happily, shows the two words correctly separated!

    [* - Refs.:  Ziel, "Steel Rails to the Sunrise" (1965), pp. 10, 11, 21, and 187.]

Because the LIRR is the only surviving Class 1 railroad still operating under its original name and charter (since 1834), it is a shame that some RR historians perpetuate the error (however minor it may seem) of combining Rail and Road into "Railroad".  The two leading LIRR historians, Vince Seyfried and Ron Ziel, have each taken the trouble to get it right in their many books; go thou and do likewise.



LIRR Double-Deckers

My friend, Mike Boland, wrote two major articles on the old LIRR fleet of so-called "Double-Deckers", one in the PRRT&HS Keystone and one in the Spring 2003 issue of Classic Trains (pp. 64-69).  In the latter, the editor left out Mike's roster and notes, which I have reproduced here:

  Road No.	Class	Type		Length		Aircond.	Built	Notes

  200		T62	trailer		68 0		no		1932	1

  201		T70	trailer		80 8-3/4	no		1937	2

  202-205	T70A	trailer		80 8-3/4	yes		1947	3, 6

  1287-1322	MP70B	motor		80 8-3/4	yes		1948	4, 5

  1323-1336	MP70B	motor		80 8-3/4	yes		1949	5

  1341-1346	MP70A	motor		80 8-3/4	yes		1947	6

  1347		MP70	motor		80 8-3/4	no		1937	7

Notes to table:

  1. Midtrain trailer; no motors or controls. Only surviving LIRR double-decker;
	preserved at Railroad Museum of Long Island.

  2. Controls removed 1958.

  3. Delivered without motors because of strike at Westinghouse; motors
	added 1947-48; renumbered 1337-1340; reclassed MP70A.

  4. Seven cars (1287-1289, 1291, 1334-1336) converted to motorized
	trailers in late 1950's, reclassed MP70BT.

  5. Ten cars (1301-1307, 1309, 1311, 1312) rebuilt in 1967 with sealed
	windows and improved air-conditioning.

  6. Five cars (1337, 1338, 1340, 1341, 1345) converted to motorized trailers
	in 1958; reclassed MP70AT.

  7. Controls and motors removed 1958, reclassed T70.
I could add (facetiously) that the "double-deckers" aren't passenger cars at all! They are multiple-well-flats, with sidewalls and windows and a cover added, and alternating people pockets inserted above the wells, up under the cover!  :)



LIRR Miscellany

Tommy Malloy (of LI tractor fame) allowed me to copy a postcard-format photo from the late George E. Pickering of an auto accident at the Glen Head crossing in 1920, in which a LIRR loco got the better (and then some) of a Model T-type vehicle; the reverse is rubber stamped #129 (inverted) and:

George W. Pickering
137 Eighth Ave.
Sea Cliff, L.I., N.Y.:

1920 Glen Head wreck
1920 Glen Head wreck rev.
(G. E. Pickering photocard courtesy T. Malloy)

Also at the Glen Head station, a shiny "new" G5 locomotive heading "west" (south), looking NNW at the Glen Head crossing on 21 Apr 1931 at 1:44 (or was that the 1:44 train?), and of his dad, Engineer A. F. Hornosky, and Fireman James Everett, on Pat Hornosky's old photos:

1931 Glen Head G5 NNW

E7sa #9723 Hornosky/Everett
(G. E. Pickering photos courtesy T. Malloy)

The first shot is of a purpose-built PRR G5 engine on the LIRR, as evidenced by the silver smokebox front; the LIRR delighted in "defacing" PRR engines with such "attentions".  The second shot is of a leased PRR loco as evidenced by the PRR road number; note the old-style long double-window cab and low tender of the old leased Pennsy Class E7s Atlantic 4-4-2 steamer.  She's a 1901-1903 Pennsy antique, a Lines West E2 rebuilt ca. 1910 to Class E7sa, and later sloughed off on the stepchild LIRR.

Here's an odd duck to model:

Wayner 54
(from Railroad Work Equipment and Special Service Cars, Robert J. Wayner, NY, ca. 1989
[Thumbnail image - click on picture for larger image.]

LIRR tool car #221 had lift-up hinged flaps along the sides for ease of access to contents.



LIRR Cross-Sound Service
Oyster Bay to Wilson Point
1891-1892

Speaking of firsts, as one can see in my LIRR bibliography on the LIRR and LIRR Historical Society pages, Vince Seyfried's The Long Island Rail Road - A Comprehensive History, in Part 6: The Golden Age: 1881-1900, Chapter 11, The Oyster Bay Sound Ferry and the Boston Service, there was a cross-Sound car ferry (car float) operation from Oyster Bay to Wilson Point in Connecticut (Norwalk area), for passengers and freight, that only ran from 12 Sep 1891 to 13 Jul 1892; it is well covered, with old photographs, on Art Huneke's aRRt's aRRchives in his Oyster Bay Part 3.   rev (21 Nov 2013)

Art's site once showed a rough map (redrawn excerpt immediately below - that's New Haven at the far right, with Hartford above it), where it appears to be a southward extension of the Danbury Branch, but just try and find Wilson Point in any atlas or gazeteer!   rev (21 Nov 2013/25 May 2015)

Wilson Pt 1
(08 Oct 2002/25 May 2015 map by and © 2002 S. Berliner, III - all rights reserved)
[It erroneously showed New London!]

I finally located it on a Hagstrom's map for Norwalk, Connecticut (redrawn excerpt based on that, below).  The exacting street detail I showed on my drawing was lost in the translation but you can see the dotted red lines for the NYNH&HRR from NYCity to Boston with the Danbury Branch splitting off in downtown "old Norwalk" and, sure enough, there is even a spur heading directly down towards Wilson('s) Point (between Roton Brook and Village Creek):

Wilson Pt 3
(08 Oct 02 map by and © 2002 S. Berliner, III - all rights reserved)
{Thumbnail image - click on picture for a larger image]

Wonder just where the RoW ran and where the dock was.

Wonder no longer!  A budding historian writing about the Long Island Motor Parkway sent the URLs of a bunch of old USC&GS topo maps in the collections of the University of New Hampshire and I started exploring and, sure enough, there was Oyster Bay in 1900 and Wilson (no "'s") Point in 1897 and 1947 locking down rather well where everything was:

Wilson Pt 1895 Wilson Pt 1947
[Thumbnail images - click on pictures for larger images]

1895 Wilson Pt Dock 1900 Oyster Bay Cross-Sound 1900 Oyster Bay Dock
(from 1895 Norwalk topo map surveyed 1889-90 and 1947 Norwalk topo map and
from Oct 1900 Oyster Bay topo map as reprinted 1935)

You can see how the Danbury & Norwalk Branch of the Housatonic RR (successor to the New York & New England) splits off southerly from the NYNH&HRR just west of the turnout for the northerly Danbury branch on the west side of the Norwalk River and heads due south to the Point.  On the LI side, you can see how the LIRR's Oyster Bay yard used to extend all the way to the water's edge.

Now, all I need is an 1891-92 topo map of Oyster Bay to (hopefully) show the actual dock layout!

Bingo (well, not quite)!  A LI Motor Parkway enthusiast sent me the 1918 Camp Mills Quadrangle, a WWI overprint of the 1918 reprint of the south half of the 1897 Oyster Bay Quadrangle and the north half of the 1897 Hempstead Quadrangle; here's the pertinent portion, showing exactly the same layout:

1897/1918 Oyster Bay Dock
(from 1918 Camp Mills topo map surveyed 1897)

I still need to find the actual dock trackage.

The full 1918 topo map is posted on my Long Island page 2.

[More to follow on this odd venture]

Speaking of the LI Motor Parkway, I received a near-mint special timetable for trains to the 30 Oct 1909 running of the Vanderbilt Cup Race, part which ran on a portion of the LIMP parallel and adjacent to (north of) the CRRof LI in Central Park (now Bethpage); it's posted on my LIMP Vanderbilt Cup Cont. Page 1.


Oyster Bay Station in 1900

As a result of an inquiry about the trackage and such at Oyster Bay over the years, I took the 20" x 24" 1900 "aerial" view of Oyster Bay and scanned the RR area (40Mb), cropped it down (1.3Mb) and then reduced that to this blurred thumbnail; click on it for a much larger image:

Oyster Bay Station Aerial
(Cropped from image courtesy of Oyster Bay Historical Society)
[Thumbnailed image - click on picture for 1.3Mb image,
then click HERE for an exactingly-detailed 40Mb image (and WAIT), if your server can handle it.]

This is a truncated index to the numbered waterfront/railside features:
  28 - Oyster Bay and Cold Spring Transp'n Co. Steamer Wharf
  58 - A. J. & E. N. Hutchinson - Coal, Groceries, Hardware
  35 - James Thompson - Oyster Shipper and Dealer
  59 - E. H. Kirby - Sail and Awning Maker
  41 - W. W. Sammis - Carriage and General Painting
  40 - P. N. Layton - General Blacksmithing and Carriage Work
  66 - Pausel & Son - Machine Shop
  27 - Franklin Hotel
  36 - Frank Bayles - Insurance, Coal and Wood
* 29 - F. D. Bligh - Oyster Bay Station and and L.I. Express Agent
  15 - Casino (really!)
   2 - {Oyster Bay Station}
[Odd - there seem to be TWO 29s, one in the grass across from the station, in what is now Roosevelt Park, and one by the little building along the tracks to the station's left (east), just beyond the buggy; I assume the latter is correct, unless, of course, he was the O.B. Station Agent in the ticket bay window and the L.I. Express Agent in the small building.]

Jacobsen's shipyard (harbor tugs) is half again further to the right of the LIRR locomotive off this image (IF it was that in 1900 - not indexed).  Note the freight cars on the stub Dock Track by #59.  For those interested in modeling the turn-of-the-20th-century RR facility, it is worth the time to bring up the full image.  To make it even easier to see just these features, here is a blow-up of the station and yard:

Oyster Bay Station Area
(Cropped and enlarged from image courtesy of Oyster Bay Historical Society)
[Thumbnailed image - click on picture for larger image]

Now, for those intrigued by the many guises of the station building itself, with its two (or more) structures and various sheds of varying placements and lengths, here is the artists conception of the 1900 version, shown with a single, short, full-depth shed extending the full depth out beyond each end wall:

Oyster Bay Station Area
(Cropped and greatly enlarged from image courtesy of Oyster Bay Historical Society)

Artistic license or a version of which "I know noth-ing!"?  That's no help!  Notice, however, that the chimney is NOT at the end wall to the east and notice the otherwise-full symmetry of the building (other than the chimney).

If you are really into the Oyster Bay Station, there's a whale of a lot more about it at:   linksadd (21 Nov 2013)
    Victorian LIRR Stations (continued) on the LIRR Continuation Page 7
      Oyster Bay Station
        Oyster Bay Station Photos
        Oyster Bay Station Dimensions
    and at Victorian LIRR Stations (continued) on the LIRR Continuation Page 8
      More on Oyster Bay Station (continued)
        More Oyster Bay Station Photos
        More Oyster Bay Station Dimensions
[probably more than you ever wanted to know about that station!]


Morris Park Maps

Steve Lynch, noted LIRR historian, sent me two files, one a map of the Morris Park shops ca. 1973 and one a tabulation of the buildings then, both complied by Steve Rothaug; I combined the two into a massive GIF drawing and, in doing so, realized I'd forgotten that I have an LIRR drawing of the shops from 01 Aug 1968 (I do NOT remember how I came by this one).  I can not speak to the relative merits of these but thought I would post them both for comparison.  Here, then, are thumbnails of the two, the LIRR one at left, which will bring up a ~1.6Mb image, and Steve Rothaug's at the right, which will bring up one at ~63Kb:

Morris Park Map 1968 Morris Park Map 1973
(Cropped and enhanced from LIRR image {l.} and
combined S. Rothaug images courtesy of S. Lynch {r.})
[Thumbnailed images - click on the pictures for a VERY much larger ~1.6Mb image {l.} and a ~65Kb image (r.)]

For those not familiar with these shops, the Morris Park shops, started in 1883 and substantially completed by Nov 1889 (Seyfried, VI, pp. 129-130) was the primary service facility for steam locomotives for the LIRR (and for the PRR east of the Meadows Yard in New Jersey) right through the end of steam in 1955 and then served for diesels for another 40 some odd years.  It finally met its demise in 2004.  In the Pennsy era, steamers only went back to Altoona (Pennsylvania) for major work (heavy repairs or complete rebuilds).


LIRR Bibliography:     [moved to its own page from this page on 01 Mar 02]


[this page was separated out from my RAILROAD, LI Rail Road, and LI Railroads pages, et seq.;
you might wish to see them also.]


You may wish to visit the Railroad Continuation Page, et seq.

nextpage.gif
of this series of Railroad pages.


LEGACY

  What happens to all this when I DIE or (heaven forfend!) lose interest?  See LEGACY.

COPYRIGHT NOTICE

See Copyright Notice on primary home page.



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of this series of LIRR pages.

To tour the Long Island railroads pages in sequence, the arrows take you from the first LIRR page to the LIRR index, to this page and on to pages 2 and up, then to the other LI railroads page, and lastly to the LIRR Historical Society page.



© Copyright S. Berliner, III - 1999, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2015  - all rights reserved.


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