S. Berliner, III's sbiii.com Schnabel Railroad Continuation Page 1 keywords = schnabel schnable rail road freight car train car drop center well flat Pennsylvania Pennsy PRR Berlinerwerke model Combustion Engineering CEBX 800 Krupp ABB GE TransAlta Westinghouse LEGO"> "

Updated:   04 Aug 2014; 23:30 ET
[Page created 14 Sep 2002; converted 09 Mar 2011
    original AT&T Worldnet Website begun 30 May 1996.]
URL:  http://sbiii.com/rrschnb1.html
[was at "home.att.net/~Berliner-Ultrasonics/rrschnb1.html"]

S. Berliner, III
Consultant in Ultrasonic Processing
"changing materials with high-intensity sound"

[consultation is on a fee basis]

Technical and Historical Writer, Oral Historian
Popularizer of Science and Technology
Rail, Auto, Air, Ordnance, and Model Enthusiast
Light-weight Linguist, Lay Minister, and Putative Philosopher



note - The vast bulk of my massive Web presence (over 485 pages) had been hosted by AT&T's WorldNet service since 30 May 1996; they dropped WorldNet effective 31 Mar 2010 and I have been scrambling to transfer everything.  Everything's saved but all the links have to be changed, mostly by hand.  See my sbiii.com Transfer Page for any updates on this tedious process.


S. Berliner, III's

sbiii.com

Railroad Continuation Page

RAILROADING



SCHNABEL RAILROAD CARS

(also misspelled "Schnable"* -
by me!)

and other GIANT FREIGHT CARS

(with digressions to highway uses)

[continued]

NOTE:  Page size was limited by HTML to some 30kB; thus, I was forced to add this page
as a continuation page to my various RR and Model RR pages,
and, in turn, now has a Continuation Page.

NOTE:  I regret that some of my internal links refuse to work; if they don't, please click "Back" and scroll.


INDEX

On the main Schnabel page:

    Scroll away, plus these specifics -
    Schnabel Diagram.
    Schnabel Car Loading Technique.
    Model Schnabel and other Giant Cars (moved to Continuation Page 2 on 04 Dec 99).
    Schnabel References (moved to Continuation Page 1 on 14 Sep 02).
    Road/Highway Schnabels - moved to Road Loads page 16 Mar 00.

On the preceding Schnabel Continuation Page 0:

    72-wheel 880-Ton Schnabel Car.
    More about 72-wheel 880-Ton Schnabel Car.
        (moved from Schnabel Continuation Page 2 on 09 Jan 2002)
    Mammoet/ETARCO Mammoth Rail Loads.

On this Schnabel Continuation Page 1:

    Krupp Schnabel Brochure
    CEBX-800 Drawing (NOT!)
    Schnabel Linkages
    LIRR Loads
    Schnabel References (moved from main page 14 Sep 02).

On the Schnabel Continuation Page 2:

    Scroll away, plus these specifics -
    More about 72-wheel 880-Ton Schnabel Car.
        (moved to Schnabel Continuation Page 0 on 09 Jan 2002)
    Model Schnabel and other Giant Cars (moved from Main Page, 04 Dec 99).
    Schnabel Miscellany.

On the Schnabel Continuation Page 3:

    More Model Schnabel and other Giant Cars.
    Dave Allen's Concept Models Schnabel Kits. (moved to page 4 on 17 Jan 05)

On the Schnabel Continuation Page 4:

    Schnabel Models - continued.
    Dave Allen's Concept Models Schnabel Kits. (moved here 17 Jan 05)
    GEX 80003 - World's Largest Drop-Center Flat Car.
    Nisco Steel move in China. (moved here from Cont. Page 3 on 08 Dec 05)

On the Schnabel Continuation Page 5 (06 Feb 2012):

    Schnabel Car Geometry.
    Even More Schnabel Car Models.
    Schnabel Car Model Geometry.   new(15 Mar 2014)
    Even More Schnabel Car Models.
    Mark Runyan's 800-801 Models (24 Aug 2012).

On the Schnabel CEBX 800 Page:

    CEBX 800 in Houston - 28 Mar 2005.

On the Road Loads page:

    Road/Highway Schnabels - material moved from main RR Schnabel Car page,
    MOVING LOCO #833
    MOVING COKE DRUMS in ALBERTA

On Road Loads Page 2:

    MOVING THE GLENWOOD TANKS
    Road Load Models
    Mammoet/ETARCO Mammoth Road Loads, plus
    just scroll away.

On the Road Loads Page 3:

    Danly Press
    Miller Transfer

Something has to lift these giant loads; see Big Cranes.


Jump to SB,III's RAILROAD Page for a goodly set of RR links

  and to SB,III's MODEL RAILROAD Page for a goodly set of model RR links (yea, verily, forsooth!).


SCHNABEL and other
giant RAILROAD CARS

(and highway variants)

[continued]


Krupp Schnabel Brochure

Here, thanks to the exceedingly-kind courtesy of ThyssenKrupp's Krupp Historical Archive, are the cover and two pages (pp. 14 and 15) of photos, diagrams, and data from a Krupp Industrie- und Stahlbau (Krupp Industry and Steel-fabricator) English-language brochure on "Krupp multiple-axle heavy cargo railway cars":

Krupp Brochure Title Page Krupp Brochure Page 14 Krupp Brochure Page 15
"Photos: Historisches Archiv Krupp, Essen, Germany."
(images from Krupp brochure, by special permission - All Rights Reserved)
[Thumbnail images - click on images for VERY much larger (~3, 2.4, and 1.3Mb!) images]

{Please note that, on all three images, the brochure format has been altered to greatly reduce white space to conserve precious bandwidth;
Krupp graphic artists had made very much more harmonious page layouts!.}

The great significance to Schnabel afficionadoes and modelers is that the diagram shows clearly the modular component progression from the 16-axle car to the 36-axle car.  Also, the top photo on page 14 (center image) shows the original load, a reactor vessel, being offloaded from (or emplaced on) a barge in the lagoon between the two loading tracks.

Special appreciation must be expressed to the Krupp Historical Archive for furnishing, and permitting reproduction of, these fantastic images.

To honor this very special courtesy, I have used lots of memory to bring these images to you with the photos, diagram, and data uncut.

In addition, I also have this half-car erection drawing of the Krupp Soviet 32-axle, 500-metric-ton car, which shows many details applicable as well to the other cars:

Krupp Soviet Half-Car Drawing
(source lost - I will remedy this as soon as found)
[Thumbnail image - click on drawing for larger (880Kb) image.]


CEBX-800 DRAWING (NOT!)

20 Apr 2004 - I found it!  After many years of fruitless searching, I stumbled on my ancient 11" x 17" Dietzgen drafting pad (with a 4x4 No-Print grid) and there, hidden under other RR drawings, was my uncharacteristically-undated sketch in HO Scale (1:87.1) of CEBX 800, taken meticulously from Krupp's engineering drawings (no, I haven't found them, yet).  I would guess it was done between 1969 and 1974, using proportional dividers, and the primary grid markings are 1" apart with ¼" sub-divisions.  Here, with no attempt at scaling, is the drawing at 1.34Mb, and thumbnailed [EXCEPT FOR ONE LITTLE DETAIL!]:


(ca. 1970 Drawing by and © 2004 S. Berliner, III - all rights reserved)
[Thumbnail image - click on drawing for larger (1.34Mb) image.]

It's too bad I didn't draw up the top view (assuming I even had it).

THE ONE LITTLE DETAIL!  Tom Daspit, without the fanaticism I exhibit, dispassionately looked at the @#$%&* drawing and immediately brought me crashing back to reality: "Great drawing, but this is not of the CEBX 800.  There are not enough axles, on{ly} 22, not 36.  This is either of the WECX 102 or 301 built by McDowell-Wellman Engineering Company for Westinghouse.  Look at the lifting and shifting area where the schnabel arm connects to the span booster.  On the CEBX there are two parts to the schnabel arm, and on the WECX there is only one.  This is an extremely good drawing of one of the Westinghouse cars."

Coises!  Ferled again!  Tom is, of course, quite right; the drawing is the one I made for the WECX 102 or 301 mock-up shown on my main schnabel page and reproduced here:

WECX 102 or 301
(photo taken 03 Nov 99 by and © 1999 S. Berliner, III - All Rights Reserved)

My, did I ever get excited when I found that drawing!  Well, Tom is too kind but it's no mean drawing in its own right, even if it isn't the one I sought.

PLEASE NOTE:

Effective mid-2012, Westinghouse has renumbered Krupp-built
CEBX 800 to WECX 800 and twinned it with Kasgro-built WECX 801,
which latter now takes the title of the largest RR car in the world.
[Most references to CEBX 800 herein have NOT been changed.]


Schnabel Linkages (linkages, NOT links to other pages or sites) - this is awkward because I don't want to spend too much time on this but I've been asked many times to explain how the Schnabel arms work, how the load shifts, and such.  I've already shown how the arms swing to pick up and drop a load on the first Schnabel page (SCHNABEL CAR LOADING TECHNIQUE).  What I've done here is to take the RICA and eisenbahn magazine illustrations and combine and doctor them to show how loads are attached to Schnabel cars:

Schnabel Loads
(24 Apr 2005 drawing by S. Berliner, III - all rights reserved)

The top outline (after RICA) shows a load sitting on a pallet; the pallet takes both draft and buff and is firmly bolted to the load arms (it can be empty and still function and the pallet and car halves together form a sort of drop center flat car).  The second (middle) silhouette (after eisenbahn) shows a load rigidly bolted directly to the load arms; the load becomes an integral part of the car, taking both draft and buff (and must be designed for such forces) and this is a true Schnabel configuration.  The third (bottom) silhouette (after eisenbahn) shows the load sitting on tension beams; in this arrangement, the tension beams absorb all draft and much buff, but the load also takes some buff and the tension beams and car halves together form a partial well flat car but can not function without the load in place.  There is also a variety of the third configuation in which a load platfom, which extends the full width of the car, is fitted in place of the tension beams; in this case, the platfom and car halves form a partial drop center flat car but can not function with out the load. In the configurations with tension beams or a load platform, the main pins act as hinges and the load itself keeps things from just folding up.

Next, we address how the load arms on the more elaborate cars adjust for curving and for shifting.  First, I use half a Krupp diagram to indicate that the vertical and horizontal movements occur about separate pivot points; in this way, the functions can be controlled separately.  Hydraulic cylinders (or other actuators) can move the arms up and down independantly of the angular displacement from curving:

Schnabel Pivots
(24 Apr 2005 drawing by S. Berliner, III - all rights reserved)

Then, I take the illustration from U. S. Patent No. 4,041,879 and doctor it by adding a Fig. 1e in which I show the difference beween curving with a Schnabel feature and without.  It takes a bit of studying but, if you'll look at the increasing curvature of Figs. 1a through 1d, you'll see how the horizontal pivots (A)9 and 10(A) in horizontal slider 12 move outward in tracks 7 and 8, restrained by inner and outer restraints 11 on car halves 3 and 4 acting on stop I on the underside of load arm 1.  When load arm 1 moves past the half-way point, the outer restraint 11 halts at stop 13 and the inner restraint becomes fully compressed, forcing slider 12 all the way to the outer end of tracks 7 and 8 and allowing the load 2 to move outward relative to the curve.  On the left half of artificial view 1e, I show how the load would be far further inboard of the curve if there were no inner restraint 11 and the slider 12 stayed in the middle of track 7; the right side of the break in load 2 and the right half-car 4 are the same as in 1d, for comparison:

Schnabel Curving
(24 Apr 2005 drawing by S. Berliner, III - all rights reserved)

By having sliding horizontal pivots 9 and 10 and relatively stiff restraints 11, the effective pivot points are shifted inboard and the load does not have to obtrude as far into the curve.  Using actuators to force the sliders 12 to move along in tracks 7 and 8 can move the load from side to side to clear trackside obstacles.  Hopefully, this all will give you some vague idea of the linkages that allow the Schnabel car (and some other very large cars) to shift the load to clear obstacles.


I'm running out of room on the other Schnabel pages, and don't really want to create another, so I'm sticking Bruce S. Chamberlain's pictures of his LEGO brick CEBX 800 (from his Brickshelf Gallery page) here; it's not a scale model but is so ingenious that it well deserves coverage here (and links on my Schnabel Continuation page 2 (after the Model List), hobby, and model RR pages):

BSC LEGO CEBX 800 1
(Photos courtesy of B. S. Chamberlain, by permission - all rights reserved)
[Thumbnailed image - click on picture for larger image]

That arch bridge is something in its own right, so I show it in full.

BSC LEGO CEBX 800 2 BSC LEGO CEBX 800 3
[Right image (only) thumbnailed - click on picture for larger image]

BSC LEGO CEBX 800 4 BSC LEGO CEBX 800 5

BSC LEGO CEBX 800 6 BSC LEGO CEBX 800 7
[Thumbnailed images - click on pictures for larger images]

BSC LEGO CEBX 800 8 BSC LEGO CEBX 800 9
(Photos courtesy of B. S. Chamberlain, by permission - all rights reserved)
[Thumbnailed images - click on pictures for larger images]

[Some images cropped.]

Bruce corrected the truck arrangement but then had to rebuild the truck/bolster setup "to get a better angle for the load arm".  The end result, although not prototypical, will actually run around a 180° curve:

BSC LEGO CEBX 800 01
(Photos courtesy of B. S. Chamberlain, by permission - all rights reserved)

BSC LEGO CEBX 800 02 BSC LEGO CEBX 800 03 BSC LEGO CEBX 800 04

BSC LEGO CEBX 800 05 BSC LEGO CEBX 800 06
(Photos courtesy of B. S. Chamberlain, by permission - all rights reserved)

The problem is that the innermost truck is on an odd span bolster, NOT paired with the second truck out and that second truck is paired with the third one; see my main Schnabel page for a diagram and a side-view photo of my tracking mockup for the actual configuration.  Here is my doctoring of Bruce's photo 02 (second one, above) to show the incorrect and "correct" configurations; I do not have all the LEGO bricks necessary to mock this up on my own and there's little reaon to do so since, as Bruce points out, it won't work on LEGO track:

BSC LEGO CEBX 800 x2
(26 Nov 03 photofake by and © 2003 S. Berliner, III - all rights reserved)

The load had to be foreshortened because the car will go through the straight part of turnouts but the load catches on the turnout control arm when the car attempts to go through a reverse turnout.  I demurred; kidding Bruce by suggesting he go with the long load and use the hydraulic load shifting capability to lift the load over the control arm.  Incidentally, the load can be detached and the arms connected together to travel as an empty Schnabel car.  The car measures 155 studs long, coupler-to-coupler; i.e.: 117cm/~46" [LEGO is based on 7.5mm stud spacing].

Bruce kindly sent more detail shots; the arms and load ends showing the black connector pegs, the underside and inside of the ends of the arms (again showing the pegs), the unloaded car, and truck detail (showing the reversed bolstering):

BSC LEGO CEBX 800 07

BSC LEGO CEBX 800 08

BSC LEGO CEBX 800 09

BSC LEGO CEBX 800 10
(Cropped 03 Dec 03 from photos by B. S. Chamberlain - all rights reserved)


Similarly, rather than start yet another page, here is Peter Ziegler's photo of a Trix HO Uaai 839 model with 24 axles:

Trix HO Uaai 839
(Photo courtesy of P. Ziegler - all rights reserved)


CEBX in Houston - 28 Mar 2005

. CEBX 800 was on the move again on 28 Mar 2005; she had been rebuilt in March 2003 and was working a 745 ton vessel destined for Suncor in Commerce, Colorado, on the BNSF.  The material overloaded this page and is now on a
new page.


LIRR Loads

I can't believe this; right in my own backyard and I've had these shots since January 1968!  I was looking for old photos, especially those of a huge rotary kiln (or some such structure) that I knew I'd photographed in the Long Island Rail Road's Long Island City or adjacent Hunter's Point yards; I found them (from January 1968) - the whole rig from one side and a "panorama" of the left, center, and middle, showing the three long (TT?) flats, two supporting the load and a center one as an idler:

Kiln LIC Jan 68

Kiln L LIC Jan 68 Kiln C LIC Jan 68 Kiln R LIC Jan 68
(Jan 68 photos by and © 1968/2003 S. Berliner, III - all rights reserved)
[Thumbnail images - click on pictures for larger images.]

These photos were artificially lightened to show some detail.  That's all I know about it; I just happened to spot it, had a camera, and caught it.  However, at the same time, and I must assume it is an end for the kiln, I shot this huge drum on a big four-truck Pennsy car, well-flat #470249 (where is my Maywald book on heavy- duty cars when I need it?@) [if you think that the car itself registered with me back then, think again!]:

2 - Looking far more carefully at the three "panorama" shots on 04 Aug 2014, I realized that, faint though they be, the car IDs can be discerned after all and they are NOT TT flats at all; the left one is a PRR car, the center one is Erie #8064, and the right one is EL #8188!  Now, all I have to do is find the original prints or negs!   new (04 Aug 2014)

Drum 1 LIC Jan 68 Drum 2 LIC Jan 68
(Jan 68 photos by and © 1968/2003 S. Berliner, III - all rights reserved)
[Thumbnail images - click on pictures for larger images.]

The left photo was artificially lightened to show some detail.  Now, does anyone know what this (these) shipment(s) was (were) all about?

23 Jan 2006 - PRR #470249 was specially built in 1963 to carry a large spherical bearing for the 140' radio telescope at the National Radio Astronomy Observatory at Green Bank, West Virginia; more information on this car and that load is sought.

@ - the car's not shown in Maywald!


SCHNABEL (and related) REFERENCES

  [mostly in descending date order] (moved here from main schnabel page 14 Sep 02)

Tom Daspit's fabulous site, noted above.

Horst Felbmayr GmbH's fantastic heavy-lift and -transport site at

http://www.felbermayr.at/seiten_engl/start_engl.htm!

This is the English version of their German site; either version is well worth "navigating", with their plethora of photos of European heavy rail, road, and marine operations.

See also Paul Bowers's "The Schnabel Webpage" (with other over-sized load coverage).

The Railway Industrial Clearance Association of North America (R.I.C.A.) site, noted above.
{Revised URL as of 01 Sep 00}

Original CE and Krupp materials (also referred to above).

"Mammoth Reactor Rides Southern's Rails", (staff), TIES (The Southern Railway System Magazine), January-February 1970, Front Cover and pp. 4-6.

"How to Tote 600 Tons", David H. Hamley, TRAINS, July 1973, pp. 20-24, Kalmbach Publishing Corp., Milwaukee.

    Hamley's article is superb, although it pre-dates CEBX 800; it is mostly about WECX 102,
    with some coverage of 102, 200, 201, and 202, and photos of 102, 101, 201, and 200 and
    specifications of 101 and 102, which were completed on 01 Ju 1967 and 10 Nov 1969 at costs of
    $550,000 and $650,000 (approximately), with load limits of 523 and 600 tons, and light weights
    of 529K# and 516K#, and stretch 119' 2" (159' 0") and 135' 7" (175' 1") empty (max. loaded), on
    20 and 22 axles, all respectively.  Those axles sat in eight trucks; 6-4-4-6+6-4-4-6 for #101
    and 6-6-4-6+6-4-6-6 for #102.

    Just for laughs, CEBX 800's trucks are arranged as 4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4+4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4 (really)!
        Talk about a centipede; it's more like a millipede!

    More accurately, CEBX 800 is arranged this way:

    <[(4-4)-(4-4)]-[(4-4)-{(4-4)-4}]>+<[{4-(4-4)}-(4-4)]-[(4-4)-(4-4)]> (or some such)!!!

"German Railway Guns in Action", Joachim Englemann, Armor No. 15, Squadron/Signal Publications, 1976.

"Classic Freight Cars - The Series", Vol. 6, Loaded Flats and Gondolas", Henry Maywald, H & M Productions, Flushing, NY, 1984, ISBN 1-882608-06-2.

    Although miscaptioned in some cases, this is an invaluable reference, with many heavy
    duty cars of all sorts in color, including the FD2 Depressed-Center Flat, Queen Mary,
    as PC #766163 on page 35 and PRR #470245 on page 36 and schnabels GEX #40010
    on page 61, WECX #301* empty on page 62 and as a drop-center well flat with
    tension and compression members holding a mis-labelled reactor vessel on page 63,
    and WECX #200 in tan (dirty white?) at Long Island City, NY, and in red at Pueblo
    on page 64, plus a giant turbine on a huge USDoT over-the-road trailer
    on the inside back cover.

    * - miscaptioned as "the largest car with the greatest capacity of anything on America's rails".

Photo (and blowup detail) accompanying "Interview with Claire I. Clugh", KEYSTONE, Volume 29, Number 2, Summer 1996, Pages 14-15, PRRT&HS, FD2 #470245 in Apr 1952 (with Mr. Clugh and another in front for scale - WOW!).

"TTX Heavy-Duty 12-Axle DSH-45-Class QTTX Flat Car", James Panze, RAILROAD MODEL CRAFTSMAN, March 1999, pp. 86-90, Carstens Publications, Inc., Newton, New Jersey (with photos, drawings, and roster).

"Scratchbuilding an HO Heavy-Duty QTTX Flat Car", Jim Panza, RAILROAD MODEL CRAFTSMAN, March 1999, pp. 91-95, Carstens Publications, Inc., Newton, New Jersey (with photos).

See also Viktor Schiffer's fantastic (mostly-European) freight car site auf Deutsch and in English.

    {more to be added}


Look also at the main and succceding Schnabel pages.


You may wish to visit the Railroad Continuation Page, et seq.

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of this series of Railroad pages.


LEGACY

  What happens to all this when I DIE or (heaven forfend!) lose interest?  See LEGACY.

COPYRIGHT NOTICE

See Copyright Notice on primary home page.



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