S. Berliner, III's sbiii.com Schnabel Railroad Continuation Page 2 keywords = schnable schnabel rail road freight car train car drop center well flat Pennsylvania Pennsy PRR Berlinerwerke model Combustion Engineering cebx 800 Krupp ABB GE TransAlta Westinghouse LEGO"

Updated:   24 Aug 2012,  10:25  ET
[Page converted 09 Mar 2011
    original AT&T Worldnet Website begun 30 May 1996.]
URL:  http://sbiii.com/rrschnb2.html
[was at "home.att.net/~Berliner-Ultrasonics/rrschnb2.html"]

S. Berliner, III
Consultant in Ultrasonic Processing
"changing materials with high-intensity sound"

[consultation is on a fee basis]

Technical and Historical Writer, Oral Historian
Popularizer of Science and Technology
Rail, Auto, Air, Ordnance, and Model Enthusiast
Light-weight Linguist, Lay Minister, and Putative Philosopher



note - The vast bulk of my massive Web presence (over 485 pages) had been hosted by AT&T's WorldNet service since 30 May 1996; they dropped WorldNet effective 31 Mar 2010 and I have been scrambling to transfer everything.  Everything's saved but all the links have to be changed, mostly by hand.  See my sbiii.com Transfer Page for any updates on this tedious process.


S. Berliner, III's

sbiii.com

Railroad Continuation Page

RAILROADING



SCHNABEL RAILROAD CARS

(also misspelled "Schnable"* -
by me!)

and other GIANT FREIGHT CARS

(with digressions to highway uses)

[continued]

imgintpg.gif
{and these are mostly only thumbnails, at that!}

BIG LOADS - BIG PICTURES!] NOTE:  Page size was limited by HTML to some 30kB; thus, I was forced to add this page
as a continuation page to my various RR and Model RR pages,
and, in turn, now has a Continuation Page.

NOTE:  I regret that some of my internal links refuse to work; if they don't, please click "Back" and scroll.


INDEX

On the main Schnabel page:

    Scroll away, plus these specifics -
    Schnabel Diagram.
    Schnabel Car Loading Technique.
    Model Schnabel and other Giant Cars (moved to this Continuation Page 2 on 04 Dec 99).
    Schnabel References (moved to Continuation Page 1 on 14 Sep 02).
    Road/Highway Schnabels - moved to Road Loads page 16 Mar 00.

On the Schnabel Continuation Page 0:

    72-wheel 880-Ton Schnabel Car.
    More about 72-wheel 880-Ton Schnabel Car.
        (moved from Schnabel Continuation Page 2 on 09 Jan 2002)
    Mammoet/ETARCO Mammoth Rail Loads.

On the Schnable Continuation Page 1:

    Krupp Schnabel Brochure
    CEBX-800 Drawing (NOT!)
    Schnabel References (moved from main schnabel page 1 on 14 Sep 02).

On this Schnable Continuation Page 2:

    Scroll away, plus these specifics -
    More about 72-wheel 880-Ton Schnabel Car(s).
        (moved to Schnabel Continuation Page 0 on 09 Jan 2002)
    Model Schnabel and other Giant Cars (moved from Main Page, 04 Dec 99).
    Schnabel Miscellany.

On the Schnable Continuation Page 3:

    More Model Schnabel and other Giant Cars.

On the Schnable Continuation Page 4:

    Schnabel Models - continued.
    Dave Allen's Concept Models Schnabel Kits (moved there from Cont. Page 3 17 Jan 2005).
    GEX 80003 - World's Largest Drop-Center Flat Car.
    Nisco Steel move in China (moved there from Cont. Page 3 on 08 Dec 2005).

On the Schnabel Continuation Page 5:

  new (06 Feb 2012)
    Schnabel Car Geometry.   new (06 Feb 2012)
    Even More Schnabel Car Models.   new(24 Aug 2012)
Mark Runyan's 800-801 Models.   new(24 Aug 2012)

On the Schnable CEBX 800 Page:

    CEBX 800 in Houston - 28 Mar 2005.

On the Road Load page:

    Road/Highway Schnabels - material moved from main RR Schnabel Car page,
    MOVING LOCO #833
    MOVING COKE DRUMS in ALBERTA

On Road Loads Page 2:

    MOVING THE GLENWOOD TANKS
    Mammoet Mammoth Road Loads, plus
    just scroll away.

On the Road Loads Page 3:

    Danly Press
    Miller Transfer
    Road Load Models (moved from page 2 on 01 Mar 05)

Something has to lift these giant loads; see Big Cranes.


Jump to SB,III's RAILROAD Page for a goodly set of RR links

  and to SB,III's MODEL RAILROAD Page for a goodly set of model RR links (yea, verily, forsooth!).


SCHNABEL and other
giant RAILROAD CARS

(and highway variants)

[continued]


If this subject interests you, you must also see Tom Daspit's site, linked below!

* - Spelling of the Name:  SCHNABEL vs. SCHNABLE - "Schnabel" is the KORREKT spelling!  It is the German word for "beak", which I originally thought referred to the beak-shaped loading arms, but now know was the name of the German inventor of the design ca. 1930 or so.  I don't know where or when I started using "Schnable", but it was wrong and I don't mind admitting my error.

If I ever find my original CE and Krupp materials (referred to below) and they show "SCHNABLE" (however unlikely), I'll have to correct this back again!


More about 72-Wheel CEBX 800

    (moved to
Schnabel Page 0 on 09 Jan 2002.)


SCHNABEL (and other Giant Cars) MODELS LIST

    HO Scale (1:87.1), unless otherwise noted.

For modelers, there are (or were) many Schnabel, well flat, depressed-center, and similar heavy cars available; here are a few (HO unless otherwise noted):

CE 880-ton Schnabel 2x[9x(4-wheel)] (Krupp/CE) Combustion Engineering (now part of ABB - see below), with transformer (see pictures on preceding page); a CE engineer who helped build the car made an HO model which CE pictured in their brochure and which I have somewhere, if it ever turns up.

WECX 600-ton Schnabel 2x(6-wheel+6-wheel+6-wheel+4-wheel) Westinghouse Electric, with reactor.

WECX #202 2x(6-wheel+4-wheel+4-wheel+6-wheel)Westinghouse Large Power Transformer Division, Muncie, Indiana, 1969, later ABB, 20-axle Schnabel, 122' (Overland, brass, unpainted OMI #3337, painted OMI #3337.1, back cover, March 1996 RMC).

WECX #203 400-ton Schnabel 2x(4-wheel+4-wheel+6-wheel) Westinghouse Electric, with transformer (Overland, OMI-1394, by Ajin, brass):

Overlandf WECX 203
(photo 23 May 00 and © 2000 S. Berliner, III - all rights reserved)

GEX #40017/8 375-ton Schnabel 4x(6-wheel) General Electric (Maxon) (E & P Assocs., brass) {see July 1990 MR, Page 37).

OBB #097 9 201-9 Schnabel 4x(8-wheel) Intercontinentale/OBB, with Elin trafo load (Lilliput #383 10, plastic, Oct 82):

Lilliput HO Intercont./Elin Schnabel
Photo by and © 1999 by S. Berliner, III - 16 Nov 99 - all rights reserved

DB #096 9 604-7 Schnabel 2x(14-wheel) Trafo-Union/Deutsches Bundesbahn, with trafo load (Lilliput #209 00, plastic):
Lilliput HO DB Schnabel

the latter of these two Liliput models came with well flat arms, as well;
in this configuration, it is a through-well flat, as is the preceding model:
Lilliput HO DB Schnabel as WF

As long as I'd pulled the pins to install the well flat arms, I shot it with out the arms and with the trafo on the rails (blurry and unprototypical, but what the heck):
Lilliput HO DB Schnabel - separated
Photos by and © 1999 by S. Berliner, III - 16 Nov 99 - all rights reserved

Ditto latter, by Märklin, in Z scale (as above, but without well flat arms); here's both together (HO 1:87.1 and Z 1:220 scales):
Lilliput HO and Märklin Z DB Schnabel
(Photo by and © 1999 by S. Berliner, III - 16 Nov 99 - all rights reserved)
[I know, the left Z cab has no paint on its roof; this is a second model I bought, used,
to chop up for a loading sequence scene on my Z layout.]

[Notice the difference between the Intercontinentale/Elin unit and the DB one; the former has only a few trucks, widely spaced, for light European rail, and a relatively small trafo, while the latter has many wheelsets, closely spaced, for heavy track and roadbed, and a large trafo.]

DB #980901 2x(8-wheel) Drop-Center Flat, Deutsches Bundesbahn, with truss load (Fleischmann, HO, die cast):

Fleischmann Drop-Center Flat Car with Truss
(Photo by and © 1999 S. Berliner, III - 16 Nov 99 - all rights reserved)

DB #55153 2x(6-wheel) Drop-Center Flat, Deutsches Bundesbahn, with trafo load (Märklin #4617, HO, die cast):
Märklin Drop-Center Flat Car with Trafo Load
(Photo by and © 1999 S. Berliner, III - 16 Nov 99 - All rights Reserved)

PRR #470245 FD2 Depressed-Center Flat, Queen Mary (Altoona, Apr 52):

Alco X-106 as Queen Mary
(photo 23 May 00 and © 2000 S. Berliner, III - all rights reserved) and

PRR #472048 FW1 Well Flat, Queen Elizabeth:

Alco X-106 as Queen Elizabeth
(photo 23 May 00 and © 2000 S. Berliner, III - all rights reserved)

two different bodies sharing a common set of four (8-wheel) 4F5T1 Trucks
(from T1 tenders), two each under two huge span bolsters
(brass, Alco, X106, and brass, Railworks, FD1 {sic} and FD2).

        Tom Daspit dug up the road number for me for the FW1.

    FW1 is also called a "through-well" flat because it is open on the bottom,
        between the side girders; a typical load might have been a giant flywheel or
        ring gear, which sat vertically between the side girders with its axle flat on them.

    [There are recent photos I took of the Queen Mary in Altoona on my PRR page 4.]

PRR #470200 & #470202 4x(4-wheel) 200-ton Flat, PRR (MDC/Roundhouse, die cast):

MDC/Roundhouse PRR 200-ton Flats.
(photo 23 May 00 and © 2000 S. Berliner, III - all rights reserved)
{I seem not only to have never painted these die-cast antiques but also never installed brake staffs and wheels!}

Maxon 87' 193-ton 4x(4-wheel) Depressed-Center Flat, UP/AT&SF/BN (E & P Associates M87-2, brass):

E&P Maxson Depr. Ctr.
(photo 23 May 00 and © 2000 S. Berliner, III - all rights reserved)

Well Flat, 2x(6-wheel) Greenville (Alco Models, brass):

Alco Greenville Well Flat
(photo 23 May 00 and © 2000 S. Berliner, III - all rights reserved)
{load is a piece of 1½" brass sink trap tubing - but don't tell anyone!}

LV 56' Well Hole Flat, Lehigh Valley (Red Ball/Wabash Valley Kit #4321).

Atlas N N&W 2x(6-wheel) Depressed-Center Flat Car with transformer load:

Atlas N Drop-Center Flat Car
(Photo by and © 1999 S. Berliner, III - 03 Dec 99 - all rights reserved)

(Isn't it odd that an N-scale N&W car carries a transformer that exactly matches the trafo on Märklin's DB #55153 in HO?)

Minitrix #3297 N DB #980985 2x(6-wheel) Drop-Center Flat, Deutsches Bundesbahn, without load.

Minitrix 3297 N Drop-Center Flat Car
(Photo by and © 1999 S. Berliner, III - 03 Dec 99 - all rights reserved)

Matches Märklin HO DB #55153 model; here's both together, wth the HO car's load removed (HO 1:87.1 and N 1:160 scales):
Märklin HO and Minitrix N Drop-Center Flat Cars
(Photo by and © 1999 S. Berliner, III - 03 Dec 99 - all rights reserved)

I had been unable to identify the N-scale car until an Englishman sent me (08/09 Jan 2002) the information and this picture of a car, an older model, perhaps ca. '70s, that sold in Dec 01 for 12 UK pounds (~US$17.25):

Minitrix 3297 N D-C Flat w/box
[Thumbnail image - click on photo for larger image.]

Odd; I'd noticed before, but it hadn't "clicked", that there are two sets of hand-rails on each end of the N model, but only one on the HO one, instead of the other way around.

Surely, someone made a model of that monster GEX 80003 2x(4-wheel + 6-wheel) 500-ton drop-center car at 154' 6" (30' longer than the PRR Queen set) and with a 40' load platform, as shown on the main Schnabel page; if so, I want one and will trade for it.  I don't have to have every single Schnabel and big car model made, but that particular giant sure does appeal to me!

Actually, someone has - see Dave Allen's Concept Models and I GOT IT! rev.gif (09 Mar 2011)

BIG NEWS! (Jan 2002) - Trix, now the HO two-rail and N arm of Märklin, has just come out with the 1973 DB type Uai 839 32-axle Schnabel Transport Car {Schwerlasttransportwagen}, their #T23994, decorated for Era IV.  The length over buffers is 28-3/8"! (720mm!) and is the largest HO freight car to date from Trix (who also just produced the Big Boy in HO two-rail).  It comes with a "trafo" load and the center wheel sets on the trucks are sprung.  The load is said to be mounted on the car with side play as in the prototype but the car can also be used close-coupled (without the load); it was announced as being produced in a one-time series only in 2001.  And here, by special courtesy of Märklin USA, she is:

Trix T23994 HO Uai 839 32-axle Schnabel Car
(Photo courtesy of and © Märklin USA by special written permission 25 Jan 2002 - all rights reserved)

[That load doesn't look big enough (at ~6"/150mm or ~45'/13.25m) to justify such a monster car!]

Märklin brought the Uai 839 out again in HO (in DB Cargo red) as their #48295:

Märklin 48295 HO Uai 839 32-axle Schnabel Car
(Photo courtesy of and © Märklin USA by special written permission 01 Feb 2005 - all rights reserved)

AND then brought out a #18820 Scheurle type LS 250 28-axle dual road tractor set, the "Heuler" ("Howler") to carry that same trafo load on the highway (q.v.).

[There is major coverage of the LS 250 models on the Schnabel page 3.]


Dick Gorman made these gems in N-scale (1:160!):

R. Gorman 2 Schnabels

R. Gorman empty Schnabel
(Cropped from images by and courtesy of R. Gorman - all rights reserved.)
{higher resolution photos substituted 05 Jun 03}

To top this off, Dick sent a photo of yet another version he built on commission:

R. Gorman Schnabel
(Cropped from image by and courtesy of R. Gorman - all rights reserved.)

The smaller one is a more-or-less free-lance design and the other two are based on the Westinghouse-Siemens KWUX 102 diagram.  What beautiful work in such a (relatively-) small scale!  CEBX 800 in Z-scale next, Dick?

Dick would like plans/drawings for BBCX 1000; can anyone help him?

While we're at it, how about this Minitrix N-scale #T15184 Torpedo Ladle Car used on the DB to carry molten crude iron?  Built starting in 1967, it spans Era III and IV and measures 212mm / 8-3/8" over buffers.  This model is being produced in a one-time series only in 2001.  Again, by special courtesy of Märklin USA, here it is:

Trix T15184 N 18-axle Bottle Car
(Photo courtesy of and © Märklin USA by special written permission 26 Jan 2002 - all rights reserved)

Actually, Märklin made this Torpedo Ladle Car in three-rail HO as a one-time series in 2001, their #48290 (also with two-rail DC wheelsets 30 4062), with a rotatable bottle; the model measures 39cm (11-3/16" over buffers and the prototype was rated for 380 metric tons; here (courtesy of Märklin USA) is a photo of the HO car:

Märklin 48290 18-axle Ladle Car
(Photo courtesy of and © Märklin USA by special written permission 26 Feb 2002 - all rights reserved)

I grew up wanting (although I never bought) the Comet Metal Products AUTHENTICAST HO POLLOCK hot metal car and later realized there were many other prototype slag and hot metal cars but never did collect them.  They are also called "bottle" cars or even (improperly) "ThermosTM bottle" cars, in the U.S.  Both Märklin, Trix, and Walthers now offer a variety of these types of cars (and the mills in which to use them prototypically - but NOT hot!).  However, this one, the biggest I've ever run across, with it's array of span-bolstered eight- and ten-wheel trucks (bogies), is truly outstanding!

"Truly outstanding"?  So much the so that when Märklin came out with a THIRD version in Z scale (!:220), I just HAD to get it; it came in in Jan 2005:

86200new
(06 Jan 05 photograph by and © 2005 S. Berliner, III - all rights reserved)

What a gem!  There is much more about this Z car on Z-scale page 7.

Here is a pair of American hot metal cars, a "standard" 8-wheel type and a very-large (32-wheel #207) one:

bottles - Wayner 59a
(from Railroad Work Equipment and Special Service Cars, Robert J. Wayner, NY, ca. 1989
[Thumbnail image - click on picture for larger image.]

They are otherwise not identified; I didn't recall that we even had such large ones in the U. S.

Back to model Schnabel cars, here's Keith Gutshall's 0-scale model, styled after a drawing in the Aug 77 NMRA Bulletin (?), shortened a little because he couldn't find 6-wheel trucks.  The model, which is made of wood and has a large paper tube load, is 36" long.

O-schnabel
(cropped from photo by, and courtesy of, K. Gutshall - all rights reserved)

Now, what is that peeking out at far right (red arrow)?

Should you have a hankering for an elegant model of CEBX/WECX 800 or WECX 801, see Mark Runyan's simpy-stunning Schnabel car in resin and etched brass at Even More Schnabel Car Models on page 5; here's a teaser:   new (24 Aug 2012)

CEBX800inN
(photo courtesy of M. Runyan - all rights reserved)


See also More SCHNABEL (and other Giant Cars) MODELS.
added (02 Feb 2012)

Additions to this list are always welcome.


Harvey Henkelman used to make heavy-duty rail equipment out of LEGO bricks and many were (and may still be) shown on the Brickshelf Gallery (as are some other things of mine).  Here, as a teaser, is his 12-wheel depressed center flat, from the side, which doesn't really give an impression of its size, and an overhead shot, which does:

12-Wh. LEGO DC Flat

12-Wh. LEGO DC Flat
(Sep 00 photos courtesy of H. Henkelman - all rights reserved)
[Uh-oh - gotta work on these!]

While not truly a scale model, there is a fantastic LEGO brick model of CEBX 800 on Schnabel Continuation page 1; Harvey put me on to this one (thanks, Harvey!).

He's into other things these days (1:900 scale).


Here's a monster for you!  It's a huge German WWII 80cm (31½") railroad gun, sitting on 40 axles and used only against Sebastopol in a 13-day action in which 48 shells were fired.  It required a train of some 25 cars and 2,000 men for support and two curved tracks to emplace (it took up to 6 weeks) and train!

Dora RR 80cm Gun Model
Commercial HO-Scale Model by Bodo Hockeborn, Germany

For more technical information about the gun, see my ordnance page.

The Wehrmacht also built giant 60cm and 54cm howitzers-cum-mortars on huge tracked carriages which were hoisted on split Schnabel cars for long-distance rail travel; see my Ordnance Continuation Page 2 for photos, diagrams, and the Hasegawa 1/72-scale model of the mortar, Mörser Karl.  Here's the 60cm rig on it's Schnabel cars:

60cm Mörser Karl 040
(Image from Dr. N. D. P. Robinson's Railgun site.)

The same Reginan, Bill Tokaruk, who supplied some of the most fantastic pictures of CEBX 800 in use, also made this HO model of the car:

Tokaruk HO CEBX 800 Model
(Cropped from photo of HO-Scale Model by W. Tokaruk - all rights reserved)


SCHNABEL and other Heavy-Duty Cars Miscellany {more to be added}

See the monster RR crane at Big Hooker on my Big Cranes page; there's another in N scale, the Ibertren (Spanish) #471 model of a heavy RR crane on which everything works (at 1:160!).

And speaking of models and Schnabels and such, Kibri in Germany makes a wide range of Scheuerle and similar giant road vehicles in HO scale.
They also now make some Schnabel cars and hi-rail vehicles as well (Jun 01).
[Their Website is also available in English (quaint, but English, nevertheless).]

My German RR friend, Peter Ziegler, advises (08 Oct 01) that you can find a Polish Tragschnabelwagen and a Czech Tragschnabelwagen.


Back ca. Sep 1988, I spotted this huge transformer {?} on a big Gerosa Trucking rig at the LIRR's New Highway spur just northeast of Republic Airport (the track used for the garbage container fiasco), only a few blocks from my office and grabbed three quick shots by the fading sun of the load and rig and the drop center flat that had carried, or was to carry, it.  Being about to drive to Cleveland via Newfoundland and Labrador (a 6,000 mile detour), I failed to record any details and, naturally, I can't read the caboose number (the flat car is P&LE #961):

Xfrmr New Hwy ~9-88 2

Xfrmr New Hwy ~9-88 1

Xfrmr New Hwy ~9-88 3
(cropped from ca. Sep 88 photos by and © 1988/2003 S. Berliner, III - all rights reserved)


I'm NOT depressed, just feeling flat, sort of like I'm in a well,
as if my center had dropped, through, heavy,
split and loaded down - too much on my plate.
I need to shift my load and inch through, if my plate has clearance.
Only joking!

In a similar vein, if you have to haul a heavy load, here's where to dump it (from Daniel Dawdy's "The Oddity of the Month" on his Ribbon Rail Productions site:

UP Port-a-Potty
(Courtesy of, and © 2002 Daniel S. Dawdy - all rights reserved)

This is also on my Berlinerwerke Apocrypha page, under the Biffisch Schnabel coverage, where I stated, "The tow-bar is probably thermally variable, lengthening drastically with rising temperature, and those cans presumably carry additional water for flushing (oh, yeah!)."  :o)

If it gets hot and really smelly, the UP could always do it this way (Berlinerwerke modification):

UP Port-a-Potty
[Berlinerwerke version of image © 2002 Daniel S. Dawdy - all rights reserved (but to whom?)]

BE SPECIFIC; SHIT UNION PACIFIC! - ???


Look also at the main schnabel page, et seq.


You may wish to visit the Railroad Continuation Page, et seq.

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of this series of Railroad pages.


LEGACY

  What happens to all this when I DIE or (heaven forfend!) lose interest?  See LEGACY.

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See Copyright Notice on primary home page.



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